D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[Zardnaar]

Since people have brought up both the Book of Vile Darkness and Critical Role in this thread I thought I'd mention that the campaign Matt Mercer was running that eventually became the first series of Critical Role included elements from the Book of Vile Darkness.

For example:


That's some dark stuff right there.

One of the pre-Critical Role Campaign arcs also apparently featured the guy from BoVD that chains kids to his belt so that if he's attacked the children will be hurt or killed instead.

I wouldn't use the BoVD wholesale. There's some useful bits in there though.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

So here's an idea regarding D&D providing more non-violent solutions for things: maybe it's partially because people have tons of options for video games where they can kill things, but not many where diplomacy or trickery is an option. TTRPGs have that edge over video games because in video games you only get non-combat options when the game's designers allowed for it.

Another thing is that, in my experience as a DM, running combats can be easier than ad-libbing when the players want to resolve something nonviolently. I'd appreciate more advice and options for alternatives to combat included in D&D products. For an example that's been in D&D for a long while now, barghests can be banished back to their home plane by mundane fire. It would be neat if other monsters had weaknesses like that.

 

[Scribe]

And the real world is very grim, with wars and human trafficking, so some people (adults) want to have a setting that is more lighthearted and safe; that's also escapist, and also not-childish

And I am glad they are being provided for.

 

[Umbran]

Yes, I know, and it doesnt appeal to me in the slightest, so I do not buy it.

So, as an example - The Wilds Beyond the Witchlight. I'm going to be running it for my group. Have you read it?

There is nothing in the adventure preventing the PCs from cutting a bloody swath through the Feywild to reach their goals. You can bust into the carnival, squeeze pixies until their heads pop off, spewing glitter as they die. You can punt every faun with your hobnailed boots, string up harengon by their ears, and all that. You can totally play it like a normal adventure full of death and mayhem. And a lot of those fights would be challenging, like in a normal adventure.

But, since the PCs have a choice, it doesn't appeal? Is that right? The presence of an option to avoid combat is a problem for you?

 

[Scribe]

But, since the PCs have a choice, it doesn't appeal? Is that right? The presence of an option to avoid combat is a problem for you?

No, I have a problem with the marketing, and choices like removal of Alignment, and ASI defaults.

 

[Umbran]

No, I have a problem with the marketing, and choices like removal of Alignment, and ASI defaults.

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. There's enough stuff flying around here that one can lose track of who has what concerns.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I will admit that I would have liked the first 5E Feywild adventure to be more along the lines of how 4E depicted the Feywild. While Wild Beyond the Witchlight isn't the nonviolent kumbaya hugfest people make it out to be, it's certainly lighter than the original take on the Feywild, which was more along the lines of the Brothers Grimm.

For example, the 4E Dungeon Magazine article for the archfey called the Bramble Queen has this as its opening blurb:

From her home in the Grieving Palace and from her position in the Green Court of the Feywild, Selephra, the Bramble Queen, manipulates events to expand her reach and to entrap and slaughter countless mortals in a quest to quench her burning wrath in a deluge of blood.

"Quench her burning wrath in a deluge of blood" is a pretty metal way to describe the motivations of a fairy queen.

Here's some pictures of her and her fellow archfey, a right delightful looking bunch if I say so myself.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure it is. I see way more variety in the new art. More and varied colors (some muted, some vibrant), more and varied humanoids (far more POCs, for example), a wider spectrum of styles from impressionistic to realistic to stylized.

He was pretty clearly talking about mechanical options, not art.

 

[Irlo]

There's little that's more controversial than instakill things. We've gone from insta death poison at level 1, to much weaker poisons in 3e, to poison that's pretty worthless as a threat in 5e. It's basically just damage now.

We've gone from energy drain with no saves and guaranteed exp loss even if you got your level back, to 3e where between two easy saves to get the level back and easy to get restoration spells, I never once saw a level lost permanently, to whatever the hell 5e has done. 5e's "energy" drain is so ineffectual that I've never even seen it have a temporary impact. You don't lose many off your max hit points before the creature dies and you get it all back when you rest, and you get a save to resist the weak sauce.

You now don't die from negative hit points unless a single attack takes you negative your entire hit point total, something which is pretty unlikely at level 2 and is pretty much non-existent at level 3 and up.

You may or may not have cared about those fangs, but there really isn't an argument that the fangs of 1e and 2e have diminished and grown weaker with each WotC edition.

Those things are also a part of what people mean when they say that the game has become Disneyfied.

None of that is controversial content. And, yes, there's a heck of lot of potential RPG content more controversial than instakill effects.

Yes, the rules you cite are out of vogue in some circles in favor of rules supporting a playstyle leading to more continuity of characters through a campaign, but they're not controversial.

I don't think we're talking about the same things at all, so I'll bow out rather than try to iron out the differences. Thanks, though, for your responses.

 

[Scribe]

Here's some pictures of her and her fellow archfey, a right delightful looking bunch if I say so myself.

Are those from Witchlight?