D&D 5E D&D and who it's aimed at

[Minigiant]

I don't think so, because S&S starts being overrun long before those two things become particularly popular (indeed dark fantasy still isn't very popular, and intrigue-based fantasy didn't get big until after ASoIaF), and the sort of reader who loves intrigue is not the same as the sort of reader who loves S&S tropes, I'd suggest. Indeed they may be opposites. S&S has more in common with shonen manga/anime than it does with, say, A Song of Ice and Fire (despite superficial use of S&S tropes in Essos).

What I mean is that what S&S does well, Dark and Intrigue also does and adds more without the issues.

If some wants to be grey and personal, they want something extra. Vampire lovers, cursed friends, political enojes, and shady allies.

 

[Greg Benage]

I don't know if that holds at all. YA dystopia tends to have monoliths, but they often have simplified settings to support the other YA tropes. But outside the YA space, things are different. A lot of cyberpunk dystopia doesn't have single monoliths, but instead has collections of extra-national corporate powers vying for control.

I was thinking of, for example, 1984. But isn't the monolith in cyberpunk dystopias "the System"?

EDIT: @Ruin Explorer the Ninja strikes again. FML.

 

[Umbran]

I was thinking of, for example, 1984. But isn't the monolith in cyberpunk dystopias "the System"?

Well, if you want to create abstracts, eventually you can say the monolith is "the Universe" and always have one.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Well, if you want to create abstracts, eventually you can say the monolith is "the Universe" and always have one.

tbh sometimes I DO FEEL like the universe is against me...

 

[Greg Benage]

Well, if you want to create abstracts, eventually you can say the monolith is "the Universe" and always have one.

I think there's rather more to the point than that, but you don't seem interested. I'll pass.

 

[DataDwarf]

Honestly, the game has been moving away from sword and sorcery and toward high, heroic fantasy since 2e. Certainly all of the wotc editions lend themselves more to heroic fantasy. You can modify base-5e at least to make it more low-magic and institute all kinds of restrictions to make it more that style. But that has nothing to do with so-called disneyfication or recent trends, that’s been going on for a while

there has been a shift in tone away from books like ToA, or Rime, and even the 2 pages on Dark Fantasy made mention of keeping it heroic or something like that.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

The shift/evolution of D&D, as WotC is headed, has come really into its stride within the last couple of years. The fans that liked material like in ToA and Rime (whatever we are calling it) are feeling like the game they enjoy is moving on without them when the company that created the game stops publishing material they like.

One of the great things about the 2e/3e publishing days (problematic content aside) was there was something for everyone. Not every book, adventure, setting, etc. had to be for the largest possible market. I would love to see WotC publish material that supports, and is for, various playstyles and settings.

And yes there is a ton of old and 3rd party products to support a variety of playstyles and settings, but we are talking about the direction that WotC is taking in this thread.

Edit: grammar

 

[Vaalingrade]

Even if that was correct, it doesn't make it dystopian. In a dystopia things are BAD, and can only get worse. It not a mixture of bad and good.

A dystopia need not be 100% bad. It just has to be such that the overarching power has to be in the hands of the oppressive to the point of posing a clear and present danger to any positive groups that remain.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Do you think those authors would have written that way if they didn't have to appeal to the magazines and/or papers that published or serialized them?

Well, most of Dickens was written for serialisation in magazines, and short they are not!

And some, Moorcock for example, where first published as slim novels.

Terry Pratchett largely managed to resist the temptation to write doorstops and spread a story across 40 volumes, although he did make extensive use of recurring characters.

 

[Umbran]

I think there's rather more to the point than that, but you don't seem interested. I'll pass.

The point I wqas seeing is going to levels of abstraction to claim there was a monolith. Which feels a lot like moving goalposts. No, I am not interested in disucssing if the goalposts are moving. If that wasn't what was meant, you'll need to explain how it isn't an abstraction.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think this hits the nail on the head.

The shift/evolution of D&D, as WotC is headed, has come really into its stride within the last couple of years.

No, this is the internet phenomena of extrapolating trends based on a sample size of one rearing it's ugly head again. When only one or two adventures are released in a year they are hardly going to publish every type of adventure every year are they? There have only been three full adventures published since Rime. It's ridiculous to try and infer that "they aren't doing adventures like that now" based on such a tiny sample size.