D&D Armageddon - Blood Wars End, Sigil Falls to Seige

Shemeska said:
And so when do we find out that the Yugoloths were behind it from the very beginning, considering they made both the Tanar'ri and Baatezu. *sneer*

I'm curious, where did you read this nonsense? There are no ArchYugoloths. To my knowledge they didn't include Anthraxus in the BOVD (yes, I'm going back to 1E AD&D) and he is the only Yugoloth that MIGHT be equal in power to the Archdevils and the Demon Princes.

IMC the fiends predate the gods much like the Titans did in the Scarred Lands. That means that The Creator put the Celestials and Fiends into existence for a purpose. As far as Celestials and Fiends go I don't think any celestial or fiend created any other creature. They could take what was already there and modify it but creating a whole new being is within the power of The Creator alone. Even the gods can't accomplish that.
 

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Love the idea of Armaggedon, simply because it does open so many possibilities, and can make for some interesting massive battles. The scenery in a full, all out war across the multiverse seems quiet intreging.

The Sigil element is something I personally don't agree with. I don't claim to be an expert on such things, but as I understand it, the Laws in Sigil function as an extension of the Lady's will, rather than any inherent law. If she is who watches the Gates and bars Gods from entry than making her a God using worship would be pointless. She has been worshiped before, and it did little more than provoke her ire. Of course, given the differing theories on what the Lady is, and why Sigil is her domain, your idea has various complications.
Theories
1. Sigil is referred to as the Cage by most. What if the Cage is not keeping her out, but rather what is keeping her in? That Gods and Archdevils cannot enter Sigil not because she keeps them out but because they must keep her in.
Forcing her out of Sigil would be something akin to letting free a trapped Tiger or an insane killer.
2. She is God-like, much as the Archdevils, and other such creatures, and thusly holds Sigil as her domain. As anyone can tell you, it is difficult, if not impossible to assault a God in her domain.
3. She is Something Else. Perhaps she has gone beyond God hood to something else and condemns worship because she feels it demeans her.
4. She is the Prime (First of) the Romani,existing as a proto-god and ruler of the city. Perhaps she is why their magic works upon the spire. And should she be ejected from the City by "the Rules", than she would return to her people and her power base. And they fight dirty.

As shemeska has mentioned before me, I must note that she can eject people from Sigil, mazing or flaying them, and can close her portals beyond all reproach. Also note that only demons & devils below Pit Fiend and Balor level can even enter the city of doors, just as Archdevils and Lords of the Nine are barred. So the war would lose its most powerful fighters, adding to this is the fact that Sigil portals lead just about everywhere. It is almost impossible to even think about holding a place where you can be attacked at all sides. A concerted attack by a force even a portion of their size able to attack from any angle at any time would demoralize and destroy them. Just ask the VietCong.
Since they would be unable to close those portals (Sigils portals cannot be sealed), they would be stuck in a place with large army deprived of its generals and vunerable to attack from all sides. It would get ugly quickly.
 

Calico_Jack73 said:
I'm curious, where did you read this nonsense? There are no ArchYugoloths. To my knowledge they didn't include Anthraxus in the BOVD (yes, I'm going back to 1E AD&D) and he is the only Yugoloth that MIGHT be equal in power to the Archdevils and the Demon Princes.

IMC the fiends predate the gods much like the Titans did in the Scarred Lands. That means that The Creator put the Celestials and Fiends into existence for a purpose. As far as Celestials and Fiends go I don't think any celestial or fiend created any other creature. They could take what was already there and modify it but creating a whole new being is within the power of The Creator alone. Even the gods can't accomplish that.

The Baernoloths, though not included in the BOVD, are equivalent. One of their number fell and became God of the Gerelths. They are radically powerful and each possess interesting abilities. They are detailed in several Planescape suppliments, and likely will be detailed in the conversion effort.
 

This thread is so awesome - I just had to post.

Normally, I don't run anything BUT Ravenloft, but this might be the first time I run a High Magic/Fantasy game - the problem with the following is that you might have ot define what the Dark Powers of Ravenloft are, but hey - maybe that's good for you.

So, how does Ravenloft fit? Try this - the good and evil gods are collaborating to fight the fiends - in 2nd Edition, Vecna was trapped in Ravenloft (I know he broke free in a module, but ignore that) - what if the PC's actually were sent on a mission to 1st GAIN ENTRANCE to Ravenloft (heheh, PC's WANT to go there, funny), and then figure out a way to BREAK HIM OUT - if they're good, they have to figure out some way to do it w/o disrupting the rest of them. Perhaps Vecna, as the god of secrets, knows where the Baatorian's or some ancient weapon or something.

That'd be cool
 

Every once in a while someone creates an amazing idea for a setting and nothing happens. Last time it was a Reign Of Fire like idea. Glad to see this is being taken somewhere.
 

Toras said:
As shemeska has mentioned before me, I must note that she can eject people from Sigil, mazing or flaying them, and can close her portals beyond all reproach. Also note that only demons & devils below Pit Fiend and Balor level can even enter the city of doors, just as Archdevils and Lords of the Nine are barred. So the war would lose its most powerful fighters, adding to this is the fact that Sigil portals lead just about everywhere. It is almost impossible to even think about holding a place where you can be attacked at all sides. A concerted attack by a force even a portion of their size able to attack from any angle at any time would demoralize and destroy them.

How about this as an option. What if Sigil became the safe haven of the resistance?
 

Toras said:
The Baernoloths, though not included in the BOVD, are equivalent. One of their number fell and became God of the Gerelths. They are radically powerful and each possess interesting abilities. They are detailed in several Planescape suppliments, and likely will be detailed in the conversion effort.

What book discusses the Baernoloths?
 

I'm fairly sure they're talked about in Faces of Evil, thought I can't check up on that atm, and I'm also fairly sure they're mentioned in several other PS products too.
 

Carnifex said:
I'm fairly sure they're talked about in Faces of Evil, thought I can't check up on that atm, and I'm also fairly sure they're mentioned in several other PS products too.

Who published it? I don't remember reading about them in any TSR/WOTC products.
 


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