D&D Baseball

[MarkB]

A lot of this isn't really covered by the rules, but just for fun, here are a few suggestions for possible game-mechanics.

I'm trying to figure out how certain rules work and thought this would be a fun way to ask.



D&D Baseball

The pitcher winds up on the mound. He throws the ball attempting to cross the strike zone.

A thrown ranged attack, but is a baseball an exotic weapon, simple, or like a thrown acid flask (no prof. needed)? Thrown weapons are 5x range increment only. (The rules imply the object could travel farther, but without accuracy). Since it is 60' 6" from the mound to homeplate the ball must have at least a 20' range increment.

The batter waits at home plate. As the ball comes across he swings at it.

Melee club attack. But what is the ball's AC? If it's an object, I'm guessing it as 10 + dex? + 4 (diminutive). But where is the Dexterity bonus derived from? Is it treated as a creature or a normal object (-5 no dexterity). How does Speed or the pitcher's throwing ability affect this modifier? Also, is this an Attack of Opportunity or a Readied Action? On the one hand, does a flying object (like an arrow) invoke an AoO? And on the other, can a readied action be ignored, if the ball was out of the strike zone? I'm guessing there is at least a Spot check involved.

Use the pitcher's attack roll, including range penalties but also +3 size bonus, as the AC the batter must strike.

Option 1: The batter misses the ball and the catcher catches it

What is the rule for catching thrown objects? Is a Dexterity check involved to account for the possibility of the catcher missing the ball?

One option is for the catcher to take Arrow Catching. Otherwise, he makes an attack roll against AC 13 (10 + size modifier) minus the pitcher's dexterity bonus to catch the ball (since the pitcher is trying to aim it at him).

Option 2: The batter hits the ball trying for a home run

How is distance determined for an object struck? Does it matter whether the hittee is a creature vs. an object? How can foul balls or ones hit into the dirt be accounted for? Does the speed of the ball matter? How about its' weight? What if it were on the ground like in golf or hockey?

Have the batter roll damage against the ball. Every 1 point of damage represents 10 feet of distance traveled. Direction is determined by a random percentile roll within a 180-degree arc, but the batter can add or subtract his total baseball-bat attack bonus from the percentile roll to influence direction.

An outfielder runs to catch the ball

I'm assuming this is a Readied action. But Readied actions can only be Standard (only move or catch). If the fielder has time, he could position himself with accompanying jump, climb, and balance checks. But doesn't a falling object land on the same turn it began falling?

Make it a Readied action, but allow the "catch a ball in a mitt" action to be a free action for a proficient character, that can be Readied along with the move action. As with the batter, the fielder must make an attack roll versus an AC determined by totalling the batter's attack roll, the ball's size modifier, and the range penalty for the distance traveled. However, the ball's range increment is doubled when launched by a bat, and it is treated as ammunition for determining maximum range.

The outfielder catches the ball and throws it to 2nd base hoping to catch a runner coming from 1st.

If the outfielder only moved to the ball previously, he can catch it, but not throw it as that includes a second Standard action. If the outfielder caught the ball last turn, his best option is to Move 30' towards the base and then throw the ball.

Agreed.

The batter drops the bat and runs to 1st base.

The Human batter drops the bat as a Free Action. He runs full speed 90 feet to 1st base. He can run up to 30' past it, but could not round the base on this turn. If he were very short (halfling-sized), he would not reach 1st base it until his next turn.

It may be worth spicing things up here by re-rolling initiatives for this round. Otherwise, any fielder who was Readied against the batter automatically goes before him this round.

And that's about the point (or possibly well past the point) where my limited understanding of baseball fails.

 

[howandwhy99]

Exotic, of course; can't be a super baseball player unless you've got the focus for it. Oh, and there's a REASON baseball player's wear helmets - fastballs are lethal. Guess at weapon stats. I'd probably be more inclined to go with about a 40 foot range increment - it's designed specifically for throwing, after all, not worried overly much about damage - to deal with throwing it back from the outfield.

I'd really rather go with No Proficiency Needed. The same would apply to thrown rocks. But this is a House Rule and not the SRD. Under the rules I'd say baseballs do not qualify as weapons and are considered "improvised weapons". I still prefer the my house rule though. No Proficiency Needed items like alchemist fire and other specialty items just don't have their category and definition displayed as prominently as I'd like.

Try the pitcher's dexterity.

My problem with modifying a thrown object's AC with it's attackers Dexterity modifier is flexibility. I'd much rather have an object in flight's AC modified by a Ranged attack roll. Then both the attacker's skill and talent are taken into account. The real problem is there are never any modifications to AC because of speed or movement in a round. A pitcher capable of throwing 300mph, but without any skill should have that speed factored in.

I'd be inclined to do both - the batter must hit the ball; if he has a readied action, well and good - if he doesn't, he gets an AoO as it leaves his threatened area.... if he can; take a -X circumstance penalty to the attack roll; X is picked for flavor; -5 is probably good.

Do remember, though - don't roll initiative until the pitcher actually wants to throw the ball - then everyone rolls initiative - if the batter wins, he readies an action and is not flat-footed. If the pitcher wins, the batter is flat-footed, and can't swing at it (barring Combat Reflexes) and it's a strike if the pitcher hits the strike zone. If the batter swings and misses, it's a strike. If the batter swings and hits.... well... have to ad-hock something for where it goes next..... hmm....

I guess I'd prefer to go core rules here again and say that in flight objects can only be attacked with a Readied action. At least those are flexible enough to cover the circumstance and still be within the rules. A possible called action could be: "I hit any ball crossing the strike zone" and then Spot check is called for when a ball passes within range? (heh. Do pitcher get opposed Bluff checks? Maybe Hide which is Dex-based?)

I really wouldn't mind something in the core rules where characters could attack in flight objects, whether they be ammo or creatures or whatever. Deflect Arrows is really the only rule that covers this. OTOH, maybe such a unique ability requires a feat? Perhaps Deflect Arrows could be HR'd into allowing deflection of any in flight object that passes through one's threat range?

As to the initiative check I think that's a bit too specialized to baseball. I'm not even sure I would run such a game that way. In D&D, a called action to "bat" is enough for me.

Take a look at the rules for giants catching boulders....

Pick a DC. I'm guessing about 15 would be good. Perhaps require the Deflect Arrows feat for it to work properly.

Catching Objects is probably the most likely event to come up in my game. In fact, I find it a bit incredulous that such has not happened a 1000 times over in other games. Ranged touch attack at the catcher makes sense, but the Reflex saving throw you suggest seems outside the spirit of the rules. Reflex saving throws being "to avoid an outcome" and Balance being to attain one. I guess I'd go with a simple Dexterity check as they is core. But I'd be willing to allow a Dex Skill if one seemed applicable. Dex subbed Juggling for instance?

It's not. Let's do something simple - x feet for every y points of damage that would have been dealt (Baseballs are immune to damage from bats....). Depending on how high a level you see baseball players, x could be 10, y could be 1, or x could be 1, y could be 10.

I'm not worried about damage to baseballs or rocks, but I would want some objects damaged when hitting them in flight with another object (or fist). This particular case seems very well covered by the rules however. Baseballs have a high hardness and a good DM would adjust damage dealt via Bludgeoning to be [EDIT]ineffective like using a club to cut a rope.

In the other case: Distance of an object struck. This also seems like a likely occurance in a D&D game. Perhaps the thrown weapon rule is the one to apply here? Plenty of thrown weapons are "launched" without using one's arm. (lacrosse comes to mind) But maybe the best Core Rule solution is to declare a bat a ranged weapon and the ball ammo? The range increment would change from x5 to x10 to allow for greater distance. And like any thown object or weapon where the final landing point is important "Missing with a Thrown Weapon" PHB158 applies.

"Batting" IMO certainly qualifies as an object requiring proficiency. (I would allow it for PCs under club) And since attack rolls are used to hit / launch the ammo, then characters get to use their experience-based MAB / RAB .

What I didn't bring up above is how far a ball would roll after landing. But this may be better off as a finesse rule that often never needs to be determined in D&D. A DM just rules based on surface, ability to roll, etc. This would cover bunting in baseball and resting point of a deflected object too.

Permit readying a partial charge. Outfielders take Monk or Barbarian levels for the extra speed.

Catching a falling object like an outfielder could happen, but catching a falling PC is more probable. In this case I think a Readied action is fine, but the problem comes when the landing point is unknown beforehand and the catcher (outfielder) needs to move & catch. I don't see a way out of this under the rules, but maybe the "falling object always lands on its' turn" dilemma below can help?

Basically. This delay covers the little issue of the ball's flying time - everyone gets to go before the outfielder can throw the ball infield, as he can't do that until the 2nd round.

I like this. I think you're right.

When running, you want Monk levels, or anything else that increases your base land speed, for this very reason. Of course, he probably had to end his turn with the readied action... so he can't actually run the same round he hit the ball......

That's funny. Yeah, I didn't think the runner ran after hitting the ball in that example either. The real challenge is Run being a fullround action, but requiring movement in a straight line and with no impediments or difficult ground. Of course the straight line bit I've seen frequently forgotten, so I imagine many DMs houserule it away. It makes chases a bit wonky.

As for Monk levels, I'd being willing to concede Move:40, but any faster is supernatural and not really baseball. Maybe some x3 run (or x2 in armor) house rule could work for turning while running? Actually I'm against making house rules normally. But that's one of the reasons for this post. Too many situations seem to be outside the rules.

He doesn't run, he Hustles. Monks and Barbarians, for the extra speed. How long does a given baseball play usually last?

The fastest baserunners can probably make it 270' or 90 yards in 2 rounds.

 

[howandwhy99]

Also, I just wanted to add that this isn't just a funny exercise in rules application. I like that the rules cover a wide variety of actions by the players. I just don't see players actually DOING actions that are different than the ones they assume work under the rules.

I mean, I would prefer players to just think without relying on the rules when choosing to do something. Then the DM explains the rolls needed, applicable rules, and whether it is "not too hard", "difficult", or "pretty unlikely", etc.

There are plenty of common, everyday actions you and I do in baseball. Most sports in fact have some form of throwing, catching, hitting, and running (I'll leave out dribbling). Such basic are more than likely to come up in a D&D session, right?

Hasn't a player ever wanted to catch his jumping comrade so he'd be less likely to be injured? If not, why not? It's a pretty intuitive action. And I'm saying I'd rather play intuitively than with only proscribed actions.

 

[howandwhy99]

A lot of this isn't really covered by the rules, but just for fun, here are a few suggestions for possible game-mechanics.

Actually, I'm hoping to stick to the Core Rules as much as possible. House Rues are fine, but learning the lmits and potential new uses of the rules as written can be illuminating.

Use the pitcher's attack roll, including range penalties but also +3 size bonus, as the AC the batter must strike.

+3 size bonus? I'd say +4 for Diminutive.

Here are the statistics for a Baseball: AC = 10 + 4 (size) + Dex. Hardness = 2, Hit Points = 15. Though in truth I'd raise the modern day balls a higher HD. Maybe 5 like a wooden sphere. As for Range, I like the 40ft mentioned in the post above.

The real difficulty comes in with the Dexterity Modifier. Objects in flight are animated (though when the PBH refers to smashing inanimate objects on p.165 it's using a rather common D&D term). Inanimate objects have 0 Dexterity, a -5 modifier. In addition they receive an additional -2 AC penalty. Maybe this is for inability to dodge? Got me. Full round actions to hit are automatic for melee and +5 when ranged.

So does speed or maneuverability have some direct relation to Dexterity? Monk speed and Bonus to AC don't really match up. "Animated Object" Monsters do have dexterities based upon size. (10 Med and + or -2 for every category lower or higher). That method would give a baseball in motion Dexterity 16. Is that where you get the +3? I'm still not sure this is an imbedded core rule.

Opposed attack rolls as you suggest is a good solution, but it is a house rule. The pitcher gets a +4 for object size and a -2 for distance thrown (60' 6"). That's a +2 overall. The batter makes a straight melee attack roll.

I like your rule, but it doesn't take into account objects in flight that weren't thrown by an attacker. What would be the opposed check to bat a ball that had been batted at you? What about "Beware of falling rocks"? Sometimes objects do not have an attacker (pitcher).

One option is for the catcher to take Arrow Catching. Otherwise, he makes an attack roll against AC 13 (10 + size modifier) minus the pitcher's dexterity bonus to catch the ball (since the pitcher is trying to aim it at him).

I was thinking a Dexterity check (or a Dex skill) to keep it simple. The DC could be set by the DM or by the ranged attack roll. A combat attack doesn't seem to fit in my mind. But the basing it on strength may be appropriate. See the second situation below:

Here's a situation: A PC 30' away yells "Throw me the sword!". You throw him the sword he had dropped. Not too hard. That's a Ranged touch attack. But what does he roll to catch it? A Dex check seems simple - maybe a DC:10. If the thrower missed, the amount missed by could modify the DC?

Here's another situation: A PC is running from a monster. His friends are 30' below and one yells "Jump! We'll catch you!" They have Readied actions to do so. The PC jumps directing himself at his friends. A simple Jump check. But what do the friends roll to catch him? Is he treated as a falling object? Is he still a creature who then provokes AoOs?

Have the batter roll damage against the ball. Every 1 point of damage represents 10 feet of distance traveled. Direction is determined by a random percentile roll within a 180-degree arc, but the batter can add or subtract his total baseball-bat attack bonus from the percentile roll to influence direction.

IMO the bat as Ranged weapon works better here. 1 pt / 10' of travel is a house rule while the other is core. Not trying to be pedantic, just working within the core.

The ability of the batter to aim the hit is in question though. Your idea to use the Power Attack feet to determine direction instead of damage is pretty smart.

So, a melee attack determines the whether the ball is hit. A ranged attack determines where the batter aims it. And the distance of his target is the AC affected by range increment. I guess I'd give the location the batter's aiming at a 10 -7 AC from "Smashing Inanimate Objects". I'm not sure about the size modifier. Probably best to keep it 0. I like the 40' range increment too. 10 increments put the center outfield wall at the edge of the farthest increment. And that's with a -20. Any farther and you have to get lucky.

Make it a Readied action, but allow the "catch a ball in a mitt" action to be a free action for a proficient character, that can be Readied along with the move action. As with the batter, the fielder must make an attack roll versus an AC determined by totalling the batter's attack roll, the ball's size modifier, and the range penalty for the distance traveled. However, the ball's range increment is doubled when launched by a bat, and it is treated as ammunition for determining maximum range.

I'd be leery of allowing "Catching" as a free action in my game. This is really all to learn how to apply it in game. I'm not sure about the range increment affecting the outfielder's ability to catch the ball. It seems to me an infielder is going to have a much harder time catching or even stopping a hit ball than an outfielder. Pop up are actually easier than a speedball hit near the shortstop. For popups a spot check for getting caught in the lights could be nice. Otherwise DM set Dex check is my own answer.

And that's about the point (or possibly well past the point) where my limited understanding of baseball fails.

Well thanks for your answers.

 

[MarkB]

I'm not sure about the range increment affecting the outfielder's ability to catch the ball. It seems to me an infielder is going to have a much harder time catching or even stopping a hit ball than an outfielder. Pop up are actually easier than a speedball hit near the shortstop. For popups a spot check for getting caught in the lights could be nice. Otherwise DM set Dex check is my own answer.

Just to clarify that part, the range increment reduces the batter's attack roll, and since that attack roll sets the DC for the fielder's catch, it does make the ball easier to catch the further it flies.