D&D Beyond Cancellations Changed WotCs Plans

Gizmodo has revealed that the partial OGL v1.1 walkback yesterday was in response to the fan campaign to cancel D&D Beyond subscriptions, with "five digits" worth of cancellations. However, the site also reveals that management at the company believed that fans were overreating and that it would all be forgotten in a few months.

In order to delete a D&D Beyond account entirely, users are funneled into a support system that asks them to submit tickets to be handled by customer service: Sources from inside Wizards of the Coast confirm that earlier this week there were “five digits” worth of complaining tickets in the system. Both moderation and internal management of the issues have been “a mess,” they said, partially due to the fact that WotC has recently downsized the D&D Beyond support team.

Yesterday's walkback removed the royalties from the license, but still 'de-authorized' the OGL v1.0a, something which may or may not be legally possible, depending on who you ask.

Cancelled D&D Beyond Subscriptions Forced Hasbro's Hand

Swift consumer action prompted Dungeons & Dragons publisher Wizards of the Coast to to scrap licensing updates. The players aren't done yet.

gizmodo.com

 

[GrissTheGnome]

I watch as people pretend any change is the worst thing ever... so yeah, I ignore everything you said because none of it is a reason to not add "You can't use this to put Hate speech in print"

How about this, in the last 23 years can you find a product that has hate speech in it? If you do, can you find any evidence that somebody has somehow mistaken that speech as something WotC/Hasbro endorsed. We are saying it’s a smoke screen because it’s not like the OGL is a new thing, and saying it needs to be fixed for a problem that until now I’ve never seen, is weird.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Are you avoid addressing any of the relevant points I made because you're unable to find even one specific example of disparaging depictions of "G* word" Romani or depictions the "final solution" in any OGL release in the past 22½ years? Are you attempting to cast anyone unhappy with any the potential de-authorizatrion of OGL 1.0a as being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...?

I am ignoreing that, as I said before "no one has robbed this bank in 20 years, so I am sure no one will in the next 20" doesn't sound like a secure bank.
We have had (and to avoid breaking rules I will be broad here) a pendulum swing where we have 'things are getting better' then swing to 'things are getting worse'. I don't care that someone didn't rob the bank yesterday, updating the security cameras when we have the chance is a GOOD thing...

now I want to pull out one part here.

Are you attempting to cast anyone unhappy with any the potential de-authorizatrion of OGL 1.0a as being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...?

this is a twist I can't imagine... I have said plenty of times IF THEY CAN CHANGE.... not "Yeah I'm happy they can change and everyone against me is a monster"
however I can promise you places less nice then enworld are FULL of people being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...
is that you, I don't know, I would like to think not... but I know right now you are on the same side as the people who are being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...
I want the rider in there... then I want everyone to watch closely how it is used. I DON'T trust that wotc will catch everything and be a grade a inclusive partner... I DO trust them to listen when we threaten to hit there wallet.

See this isn;'t a binary "Your for the new status que or against it" "You trust WotC or you don't"
Its WAY more complex and nuanced then that.

 

[Haplo781]

I am ignoreing that, as I said before "no one has robbed this bank in 20 years, so I am sure no one will in the next 20" doesn't sound like a secure bank.
We have had (and to avoid breaking rules I will be broad here) a pendulum swing where we have 'things are getting better' then swing to 'things are getting worse'. I don't care that someone didn't rob the bank yesterday, updating the security cameras when we have the chance is a GOOD thing...

now I want to pull out one part here.

this is a twist I can't imagine... I have said plenty of times IF THEY CAN CHANGE.... not "Yeah I'm happy they can change and everyone against me is a monster"
however I can promise you places less nice then enworld are FULL of people being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...
is that you, I don't know, I would like to think not... but I know right now you are on the same side as the people who are being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...
I want the rider in there... then I want everyone to watch closely how it is used. I DON'T trust that wotc will catch everything and be a grade a inclusive partner... I DO trust them to listen when we threaten to hit there wallet.

See this isn;'t a binary "Your for the new status que or against it" "You trust WotC or you don't"
Its WAY more complex and nuanced then that.

"I don't care if nobody has ever robbed this bank, we should let them strip-search everyone to make sure we don't have guns" is pretty much the analogy to your argument here.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

How about this, in the last 23 years can you find a product that has hate speech in it?

that argument is not anything. It's the 'if no one broke into your house yesterday, you can keep your doors unlocked for ever now" argument...
I have addressed it over and over. We have games that do have hate speech, and we have people that are doing fantasy 'not D&D' also in court because they are NOT OGL and using dumb bad copyright stuff.

If you do, can you find any evidence that somebody has somehow mistaken that speech as something WotC/Hasbro endorsed. We are saying it’s a smoke screen because it’s not like the OGL is a new thing, and saying it needs to be fixed for a problem that until now I’ve never seen, is weird.

again, if they can't change it, this is mute. On the other hand if we ARE GETTING A CHANGE NO MATTER WHAT, then this change is some small + and should be there.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"I don't care if nobody has ever robbed this bank, we should let them strip-search everyone to make sure we don't have guns" is pretty much the analogy to your argument here.

"Don't use hatespeech" should not be so rough that it counts as that.

 

[ValamirCleaver]

I am ignoreing [sic] that, as I said before "no one has robbed this bank in 20 years, so I am sure no one will in the next 20" doesn't sound like a secure bank.

If you are unable to find even one specific example of disparaging depictions of "G* word" Romani or depictions the "final solution" in any OGL release in the past 22½ years when directly asked then why are justifying your position by deflecting with non sequitur fallacies of locking one's front door & security at a financial institution?

however I can promise you places less nice then enworld are FULL of people being okay with racism, homophobia, etc... is that you, I don't know, I would like to think not... but I know right now you are on the same side as the people who are being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...

What are the specific names of these OLG products "with racism, homophobia, etc..." that have been released in the past 22½ years? Instead of cowardly dancing around the issue & implying I'm a racist & a homophobe because I have a problem with Wizbro going back on their word & breaking their contract by potentially de-authorizing OGL1.0a, you should at the very least have the courage to directly say so.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If you are unable to find even one specific example of disparaging depictions of "G* word" Romani or depictions the "final solution" in any OGL release in the past 22½ years when directly asked then why are justifying your position by deflecting with non sequitur fallacies of locking one's front door & security at a financial institution?

You and the others are tying to change my argument. I didn't ever say " we have too many" I said making it harder is better.

my argument has nothing to do with the old OGL, it has todo with tomorrow not yesterday.

What are the specific names of these OLG products "with racism, homophobia, etc..." that have been released in the past 22½ years?

why would I when that isnt my argument?

 

[ValamirCleaver]

however I can promise you places less nice then enworld are FULL of people being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...
is that you, I don't know, I would like to think not... but I know right now you are on the same side as the people who are being okay with racism, homophobia, etc...

Instead of cowardly dancing around the issue & implying I'm a racist & a homophobe because I have a problem with Wizbro going back on their word & breaking their contract by potentially de-authorizing OGL1.0a, you should at the very least have the courage to directly call me a racist & a homophobe. You'd be very wrong, though...

why would I when that isnt my argument?

To me that sounds like an admission of not arguing in good faith.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Instead of cowardly dancing around the issue & implying I'm a racist & a homophobe because I have a problem with Wizbro going back on their word & breaking their contract by potentially de-authorizing OGL1.0a, you should at the very least have the courage to directly call me a racist & a homophobe. You'd be very wrong, though...

I didn't imply anything... what I AM accuseing you of is argueing past my arguement.

My entire stance is IF THEY CAN CHANGE IT, AND WE ARE GETTING CHANGES ANYWAY, THIS IS A GOOD ONE

notice nothing about you being anything. notice nothing about likeing or dislikeing de-authorizing... (if it matters I am still not sure what way I feel about it, but I am more then a little on the disliking how they do it side)

To me that sounds like an admission of not arguing in good faith.

No YOU are arguing in bad faith. You are asking me to defend a position I do not take. My Position is "No hate speech is a good change"

 

[Ruin Explorer]

My Position is "No hate speech is a good change"

Do you not see how that is a "bad faith" position?

Because it is, given how little "hate speech" was occurred, and given how the OGL 2.0 or whatever does not, in fact offer "no hate speech", it just means "companies who a sign a terrible perverse licence" (so like, nobody), get to have their output policed after the fact by WotC.