D&D Brand Manager of Fluff

[barsoomcore]

I loved my OA hardcover back in the AD&D 1E days, but "Oriental Adventures" still sounds like a porn site to me.

Good idea. Scott?

 

[Faraer]

Whenever you describe aspects of a campaign world in any interrelated depth and detail -- as opposed to a collection of unconnected bits -- they can't help diverging from the assumptions of some home campaigns, just the same whether it's in the context of an existing, named setting or a brand-new set-up invented from scratch. This is why I'd favour using Greyhawk or the Realms for most of these books, contributing to their worldbuilding as well, rather than authors' brand-new conceptions, which will be largely forgotten come edition rollover. The only downside is the knee-jerk reaction of some against campaign setting logos, which is a long-term problem for Wizards unless they win this group over.

The Heartlands: Forgotten Realms regional sourcebook, guess what region it covers.

The Heartlands isn't a single region; compressing the main campaign area of the Realms into one book would only allow a slightly more detailed overview than in the FRCS, defeating the purpose of a regional sourcebook.

Without deity stats, it ain't D&D.

The printing of stats for gods in 1E does not mean it's something for PCs to accomplish. Deities & Demigods itself is perfectly clear about it:

If any servant or minion of a deity (or even the deity itself) is slain on its home plane, that being is absolutely and irrevocably dead . . . All creatures are most powerful in their own territory, so it should be next to impossible for anything except another deity to slay a deity on its own plane . . Should mere characters be so brazen as to challenge a deity on its home plane, they should be dealt with severely, the god bringing to bear all the powers that the being has.

This evidently reflects Gary Gygax's approach (and that of the World of Greyhawk). For instance, asked on an online forum about PCs killing Tiamat, he discussed how impossible it would be to get past all the dragons surrounding her.

Some groups misunderstood this and went into god-slaying antics, so 2E was even more explicit that you could battle avatars, but not kill gods permanently that way. This matched the Forgotten Realms. The 3E ethos seems to be inconsistent on this point, with the 'treat everything equally' dogma mandating gods statted like NPCs and PCs, but not all designers actually believing this.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The printing of stats for gods in 1E does not mean it's something for PCs to accomplish. Deities & Demigods itself is perfectly clear about it:This evidently reflects Gary Gygax's approach (and that of the World of Greyhawk). For instance, asked on an online forum about PCs killing Tiamat, he discussed how impossible it would be to get past all the dragons surrounding her.

Some groups misunderstood this and went into god-slaying antics, so 2E was even more explicit that you could battle avatars, but not kill gods permanently that way.

I know what Gygax has said. I have followed the debate for decades. Again, thousands of years of myth and legend should take precedence over 30 years or so of one RPG's tropes.

 

[Faraer]

Then you know that you can find examples of 'both' conceptions in myth and legend (and the Homeric gods are a late, literary portrayal of Greek religion). But you said that killable gods was what D&D was, not what you'd like it to be.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

By the way, so-called "canon" for D&D (or any game, really) holds no water at all with me. It's an artificial construct made up on the fly, in many cases, to suit the campaigns of the original game designers. Just because this or that designer didn't want PCs challenging the gods in their campaign, despite myth, legend, and even more recent fiction dealing directly with such things, doesn't mean it should be forbidden in D&D. Give the raw material, let each DM decide to use it or not.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Then you know that you can find examples of 'both' conceptions in myth and legend (and the Homeric gods are a late, literary portrayal of Greek religion). But you said that killable gods was what D&D was, not what you'd like it to be.

Killable deities have been part and parcel of D&D since the beginning. That's why Gygax provided the caveat - players were indulging in it right from the start. So yeah, I'll stand by what I said. Players make D&D what it is, after all, not just the written rules and warnings by designers. It seems to be a time-honored desire, challenging the gods, given the instances found throughout myth and legend, so it seems natural for it to show up in D&D. Which it has, right from the start. Giving stats for gods and then saying "oh, but don't actually use them!" seems odd to me. Seems more like a "well, if you insist, here ya go, but I, as the designer, don't like the idea."

 

[Faraer]

Well, yes. Same as the demands which led to statting Elminster of Shadowdale and spellfire, and similarly overexplaining or needlessly statting (in my opinion) a lot of other things in D&D.

Anyway, this thread is about non-game-mechanics material.

 

[Oryan77]

I suspect new art is a LOT more expensive per inch than new text.

I wouldn't think it would cost that much more. I know printing would be a big cost but you wouldn't have to hire people to create a lot of fluff or crunch content. A book like this can also be used for future books. They are going to pay artists to do illustrations for other books anyway, so why not get a head start for those books and compile the pictures all into 1 book early on

 

[Moggthegob]

I second book of giants
Book of fey
FCIII: daemons of the underdark
A new Rogues gallery. I know I used them.
Nature of magic: Include where it comes from why, what sorcerors of different heritages look like(without the stupid fat chains). Explain why vancian magic
Nature of combat: Explain AoOs, Mounted combat, expertise style. The why to go with the PHB crunch
Eberron book detailing Aerenal and Argonessen
Eberron Book detailng the savage nations
Eberron Goblins and orcs book, with expanded options making them playable especially for the setting. possibly make it generic?
FR book explaining...why i should waste my time and money on FR

 

[Balesir]

Really? Well, I've noticed a pretty steady stream of love for it throughout the years on these boards (and others). It also inspired a pretty diligent fan movement on the web. So, while it may not have the following of some of the others, I think a setting book is justified. GURPS thrived for years on setting books for many, many obscure settings; I think one setting book for Birthright for D&D would do OK, at least make a little money.

Sorry, should have been clearer - the lack of love I meant was on this thread, rather than the boards (or Birthright.com) in general. And I don't think 'a little money' would hack it in corporatesville, sadly...

But the ideas in Birthright are applicable in any ('even' homebrew) games, so are worth expounding, IMO.