D&D General D&D Combat is fictionless

[Garthanos]

It actually does, because you are suddenly dying when you lose your last hit point. Which is the summary of my problem with Martial Power, it would be really "you are dying, walk it off".

Watch the goal posts change like magic SO now its magically only a problem at zero hit points LOL as I said use lingering wounds idea just like you see in 5e the 4e version people used the disease track and it is all better right LOL

Note with death saves until the very last death save its only a chance you might have received a big wound instead of a knocked momentarily unconscious like disabled state. Some would say Its ret-conned how nasty it was or not.

 

[Nefermandias]

This is degenerating to edition warring, guys. It has become abundantly clear that our differences are of preference and style, and I don't think there's much to be done in this department.

 

[Lyxen]

Watch the goal posts change like magic SO now its magically only a problem at zero hit points LOL as I said use lingering wounds idea just like you see in 5e the 4e version people used the disease track and it is all better right LOL

Just because it's where it causes the most problems does not mean that it's the only part. It's just easier to show at that point, but it's exactly the same difficulty. And I notice that, despite your laughs, there is still nothing convincing coming out either about the general difficulty or this more specific one.

Note with death saves until the very last death save its only a chance you might have received a big wound instead of a knocked momentarily unconscious like disabled state. Some would say Its ret-conned how nasty it was or not.

Well, some would say this, but it would be silly. The only thing it does, fairly well actually, is simulate what you see in tons of novels, movies and shows of the genre, the guy who you thought was dead or dying but who suddenly reappears and is not even particularly affected in his abilities. But what is sure is that it does not happen because someone just walks by and tells him (even in a commanding voice) "just walk it off, soldier !".

 

[Lyxen]

This is degenerating to edition warring, guys. It has become abundantly clear that our differences are of preference and style, and I don't think there's much to be done in this department.

And the sad part is that it's not even edition warring, as actually there is for me little difference between 4e and 5e being used in a very strict manner, RAW first I might say. It's the formalism and the adherence to the letter of the rules structure that is for me the main difficulty of making the combat more relevant in terms of fiction, not the edition in itself.

 

[Garthanos]

Because even then Hit point loss did not represent wounds. But rather a threshold before wounds could be recieved.

Emphasizing what I just said "could be" received because of death saves they differentiated will be from did recieve as a separate test

 

[Garthanos]

Just because it's where it causes the most problems does not mean that it's the only part. It's just easier to show at that point, but it's exactly the same difficulty.

I am convinced your general case problem is you insisting on exactly one story and that is "hit points mean wounds" end of story for you.

The number of times people shake or shout at ally in movies saying "No!!!! do not die on me now" and the subject starts getting flash backs of the good times or whatever and pulls back from a seeming brink., is very large. I agree it may have been only a seeming brink rather than a real one. Although given the erraticness of dying from shock maybe not.

 

[Lyxen]

I am convinced your general case problem is you insisting on exactly one story and that is "hit points mean wounds" end of story for you.

Actually no, but the problem is that I'm convinced that you feel personally offended every time someone tells you that 4e is not the perfect game system of all times whatever you want to play. That gets you in a defensive stance that makes it really hard to even just discuss with you.

As for me, believe me, I have integrated what hit points could be a long time ago, with its different variations along the editions, and it does not cause me any difficulty in general.

The number of times people shake or shout at ally in movies saying "No!!!! do not die on me now" and the subject starts getting flash backs of the good times or whatever and pulls back from a seeming brink., is very large. I agree it may have been only a seeming brink rather than a real one. Although given the eraticness of dying from shock maybe not.

Actually, from my memories, this kind of sentence just causes them to die instantly. Or it's used towards an engine, which is an altogether different problem...

Once again, I really like the concept of warlords and the narrative that goes with it. Although he has a lot of rogue in him, I love Mat from the Wheel of Time in his reluctant Warlord stance that gets so much results (he is the one who actually wins the last battle). Carai an Caldazar! Carai an Elisande ! Al Elisande !

It's just that (and again, it's just a matter of taste and weaving better in the narrative that I envision) the modelling of 5e which still stiffens your resolve and allows you to continue to fight is better as it does not interfere with healing and dying at all. It's still martial and it concentrates on being only martial, it does not drift into other powers "zones of interest" just for the sake of making things equal (which, from another angle was a great benefit of 4e).

Are we good ?

 

[Garthanos]

As for me, believe me, I have integrated what hit points could be a long time ago, with its different variations along the editions, and it does not cause me any difficulty in general.

So you claim, where as in other sentences you call recovering hit points -> removing wounds. Which I find convincing evidence otherwise.

 

[Garthanos]

Actually, from my memories, this kind of sentence just causes them to die instantly. Or it's used towards an engine, which is an altogether different problem...

Perhaps or perhaps that is playing against tropes that certainly happens I suppose when it does go that route perhaps the subject is not so much a heroic personage and in 4e perhaps they are out of healing surges and/or failing a death check.

 

[Garthanos]

I'm also bemused by the fact that you conjure up a technical definition of "hit" to explain away the 5e Shield spell, while rely on a very literal meaning of "healing" that is expressly contradicted by the stipulative definitions found in the 4e rulebook.

I may have to use Bemused in the future, but LOL just types so easily