D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs

[Thomas Shey]

I didn't say it was player-facing if he was breaking the rules (though I suspect with enough instances a pattern will probably emerge for the players to notice). I said he was breaking the rules.

Given the history of people changing things on the fly as GMs in this hobby (especially in the D&D-sphere) for any number of reasons, I doubt more than one in two GMs will see it that way, though.

 

[prabe]

Given the history of people changing things on the fly as GMs in this hobby (especially in the D&D-sphere) for any number of reasons, I doubt more than one in two GMs will see it that way, though.

I share your doubt.

 

[Thomas Shey]

My interpretation of the text in the books, where the DM narrates the results, is that they didn't tell the DM to honor the results of any checks or other die rolls because they didn't think they needed to. I mean, in principle, if the DM doesn't want a check to be passable they can skip the roll.

If they genuinely expected even a majority of GMs to automatically do so without guidance, or have a consistent result in mind when they called for it, I think they are dramatically overoptimistic.

 

[Thomas Shey]

This connects up to a different trend I dislike, which is telling me my character is awesome when in practice they aren't. Different thing. In your case, it's a failure to imagine a way for a competent person to fail (and if it's that difficult, maybe the check isn't necessary?).

When you're dealing with a big linear die roll, if you don't at least sometimes emphasize that some of that die roll isn't on the character, count on demoralizing a lot of players right out the gate. Count on it.

 

[prabe]

If they genuinely expected even a majority of GMs to automatically do so without guidance, or have a consistent result in mind when they called for it, I think they are dramatically overoptimistic.

It is entirely plausible they believed they didn't need to say do, because they wanted to believe they didn't need to.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It is entirely plausible they believed they didn't need to say do, because they wanted to believe they didn't need to.

Possibly so. Game designers, even experienced ones, are not immune to the disease of assuming how they and they people they most regularly game with think represent the majority of the hobby.

 

[prabe]

When you're dealing with a big linear die roll, if you don't at least sometimes emphasize that some of that die roll isn't on the character, count on demoralizing a lot of players right out the gate. Count on it.

I don't disagree. The dice (among other things) represent what the character doesn't know, and what the player doesn't know, and the vagaries of chance. But telling me my character is awesome when the resolution system says they aren't is at least as demoralizing, at least to me.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I don't disagree. The dice (among other things) represent what the character doesn't know, and what the player doesn't know, and the vagaries of chance. But telling me my character is awesome when the resolution system says they aren't is at least as demoralizing, at least to me.

I think it depends on whether that statement is actually a lie or not. Succeeding on a 4 and rolling a 3 doesn't say your character isn't awesome. In fact, depending on what's going on, that's pretty much the poster child for "something happened you couldn't plan for." It can be true with much easier to fail rolls to some extent, too ("Most people wouldn't even have a chance to do this. I have a chance but its not a sure thing by any stretch.")

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It is entirely plausible they believed they didn't need to say do, because they wanted to believe they didn't need to.

That, and the DMG was rushed. And not great in general.

 

[prabe]

I think it depends on whether that statement is actually a lie or not. Succeeding on a 4 and rolling a 3 doesn't say your character isn't awesome. In fact, depending on what's going on, that's pretty much the poster child for "something happened you couldn't plan for." It can be true with much easier to fail rolls to some extent, too ("Most people wouldn't even have a chance to do this. I have a chance but its not a sure thing by any stretch.")

I wasn't talking about a specific result so much as general odds. If any time I try to accomplish anything I am more likely to make things worse than not, I am not awesome--don't try to convince me I am.