D&D d20 Idea for Clerics - Spontaneously Cast Domain Spells Only
- Thread starter Apeiron
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Tinker
First Post
GreatLemur said:
Absolutely, by all the gods!
Clerics like arcane casters but tougher - somebody noticed! The other great thing about second edition speciality priests was the Complete Priest's Handbook that didn't train every cleric in the world with plate armour and mace. In my homebrew, the divine caster class doesn't get any fighting skill at all, just like the arcane caster class. You want to be good at fighting, you take levels in Fighter. What's the point of multi-classing rules if you don't use them?
Storyteller01
First Post
We tweaked our divine casters as well...
They have to make Will saves (DC: 10 + twice the spell's level, after applying metamagic feats). If the save fails they don't lose the spell slot, but the action is wasted. They can attempt to 'powercast' (cast spells that for whatever reason they could not normally cast) but the DC is doubled. You can't apply metamagic feats to a powercast spell. They suffer hp damage and possible rp penalties if they fail the powercast roll. Spells aren't memorized; they ask for the spell and hope their god is listening (hence the Will save).
Spontaneous Healing/Inflict and Domain spells don't require a roll. These are gifts from your god to aid you. Your spells per day act more as 'how many times can I ask for something else without getting smacked down for it'.
Examples of spells that require powercasting: You attempt to cast a first level spell but you're out of 1st level spell slots for the day; a spell is currently too high for you to cast, but you can't think of any other option; a spell that's normally not allowed due to alignemnt restrictions, but you can't think of any other option.
Makes up for their advantages, and throws a bit of suspense into the game. Always hated the 'your god will always answer you, because if they doesn't they'll die' shtick. Gods have more to deal with. If you want instant spells, get their attention and earn it.
Rant over
They have to make Will saves (DC: 10 + twice the spell's level, after applying metamagic feats). If the save fails they don't lose the spell slot, but the action is wasted. They can attempt to 'powercast' (cast spells that for whatever reason they could not normally cast) but the DC is doubled. You can't apply metamagic feats to a powercast spell. They suffer hp damage and possible rp penalties if they fail the powercast roll. Spells aren't memorized; they ask for the spell and hope their god is listening (hence the Will save).
Spontaneous Healing/Inflict and Domain spells don't require a roll. These are gifts from your god to aid you. Your spells per day act more as 'how many times can I ask for something else without getting smacked down for it'.
Examples of spells that require powercasting: You attempt to cast a first level spell but you're out of 1st level spell slots for the day; a spell is currently too high for you to cast, but you can't think of any other option; a spell that's normally not allowed due to alignemnt restrictions, but you can't think of any other option.
Makes up for their advantages, and throws a bit of suspense into the game. Always hated the 'your god will always answer you, because if they doesn't they'll die' shtick. Gods have more to deal with. If you want instant spells, get their attention and earn it.
Rant over
Last edited:
I'm planning many tweaks to Clerics for my game:
1) PHB Clerics and Cloistered Clerics are both allowed.
2) If either the Cleric or the God is Lawful, they prepare spells; if the Cleric or the God is Chaotic, they cast spontaneously; if both are neutral, Cleric picks.
3) Clerics get the normal amount of Domains at 1st level and pick one to cast spontaneously if they otherwise prepare. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, Clerics choose additional Domains. Additional Domains may be cast spontaneously with Feats.
4) Clerics only Spontaneously Cure/Inflict if they get the Feats for it.
5) Total spells per day remain the same, however prepared casters add the numbers listed in the chart for each spell level/day together and then divide by two. That number rounded up is how how many Domain Slots a Cleric gets. That number rounded down is how many generic Cleric spells the Cleric gets. Bonus spells granted by high Wisdom may be used for either generic or Domain spells.
6) Clerics get a new class feature called "Domain Synergy." If a given spell shows up on more than one Domain spell list possessed by the Cleric, the Cleric casts the spell at a higher spell-caster level. (this is inspired by someone for this forum.)
7) Clerics do not get Turn/Rebuke Undead as a Class Feature. Instead Turn Undead and Rebuke Undead are turned into Divine Feats. All Clerics instead get the class feature "Channel Divine Energy" and a Bonus Divine Feat. Most Dive Feats are reworded to eliminate references to Turn/Rebuke Undead. Exceptions to this include Divine Feats that deal with undead or positive/negative energy.
1) PHB Clerics and Cloistered Clerics are both allowed.
2) If either the Cleric or the God is Lawful, they prepare spells; if the Cleric or the God is Chaotic, they cast spontaneously; if both are neutral, Cleric picks.
3) Clerics get the normal amount of Domains at 1st level and pick one to cast spontaneously if they otherwise prepare. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, Clerics choose additional Domains. Additional Domains may be cast spontaneously with Feats.
4) Clerics only Spontaneously Cure/Inflict if they get the Feats for it.
5) Total spells per day remain the same, however prepared casters add the numbers listed in the chart for each spell level/day together and then divide by two. That number rounded up is how how many Domain Slots a Cleric gets. That number rounded down is how many generic Cleric spells the Cleric gets. Bonus spells granted by high Wisdom may be used for either generic or Domain spells.
6) Clerics get a new class feature called "Domain Synergy." If a given spell shows up on more than one Domain spell list possessed by the Cleric, the Cleric casts the spell at a higher spell-caster level. (this is inspired by someone for this forum.)
7) Clerics do not get Turn/Rebuke Undead as a Class Feature. Instead Turn Undead and Rebuke Undead are turned into Divine Feats. All Clerics instead get the class feature "Channel Divine Energy" and a Bonus Divine Feat. Most Dive Feats are reworded to eliminate references to Turn/Rebuke Undead. Exceptions to this include Divine Feats that deal with undead or positive/negative energy.
smootrk
First Post
When I played in 1ed (and a little of 2ed), I essentially created individual clerical classes for each deity. Everything from the spell list, to armor choices, weapon choices, and other special abilities that the specific clerical class had access to.
Much too time consuming to redo all the deities for the FR which I play in right now, but if I ever make a new home-brew, the clerics will be done individually like before, only being loosely based on standard clerics.
I like spontaneous casting of the domain spells, but I also like the total spontaneous cleric version mentioned here. I think with completely individualized spell lists specific to deities, a total spontaneous cleric can be made, even without the extremely abbreviated 'known spells' list.
I always thought that clerics ought to be able to 'pray' for the appropriate spell at the appropriate time (within their deity's realm of control).
Much too time consuming to redo all the deities for the FR which I play in right now, but if I ever make a new home-brew, the clerics will be done individually like before, only being loosely based on standard clerics.
I like spontaneous casting of the domain spells, but I also like the total spontaneous cleric version mentioned here. I think with completely individualized spell lists specific to deities, a total spontaneous cleric can be made, even without the extremely abbreviated 'known spells' list.
I always thought that clerics ought to be able to 'pray' for the appropriate spell at the appropriate time (within their deity's realm of control).
erf_beto
Explorer
I am seriously considering Domain Spontaneous casting in my game. I also like the idea of having only one spontaneous slot per spell level, so things dont get too overpowered. (and maybe adding more Domains every 5 levels, or by use of a feat).
The way I see it, clerics are only allowed to convert spells into healing/inflict because they manipulate Divine Energy - wich are represented by their spells slots... but also by the Turn/Rebuke Undead power.
So why not force a cleric to loose one use of Turn Undead power in order to convert a slot into healing/inflict spells? This wouldnt take away their healing capacities but ultimatly wouldnt turn them into walking BandAids, as they will have to loose a spell slot AND a turn undead use for the day.
What you think? too much?
The way I see it, clerics are only allowed to convert spells into healing/inflict because they manipulate Divine Energy - wich are represented by their spells slots... but also by the Turn/Rebuke Undead power.
So why not force a cleric to loose one use of Turn Undead power in order to convert a slot into healing/inflict spells? This wouldnt take away their healing capacities but ultimatly wouldnt turn them into walking BandAids, as they will have to loose a spell slot AND a turn undead use for the day.
What you think? too much?
smootrk
First Post
How about using the Turning ability itself as healing spells; after all, it is positive/negative energy manipualtion.
Each Turn usage can be converted to 1 spell level of a Cure Spell. You can only cast Cure Spells of a level that you can actually cast. A DM may want to include Vigor spells, and Heal possibly.
1 Turn = 1 Cure Light Wounds
2 Turns = 1 Cure Moderate Wounds
3 Turns = 1 Cure Serious Wounds
... Etc.
This frees the Cleric to use Domain Spontaneous spells instead, yet still gives some minor access to Cure spells (or the Reverse for some deities)... and even uses some Turn Uses which (at least in my campaign) tend to go unused most of the time.
Each Turn usage can be converted to 1 spell level of a Cure Spell. You can only cast Cure Spells of a level that you can actually cast. A DM may want to include Vigor spells, and Heal possibly.
1 Turn = 1 Cure Light Wounds
2 Turns = 1 Cure Moderate Wounds
3 Turns = 1 Cure Serious Wounds
... Etc.
This frees the Cleric to use Domain Spontaneous spells instead, yet still gives some minor access to Cure spells (or the Reverse for some deities)... and even uses some Turn Uses which (at least in my campaign) tend to go unused most of the time.
Phlebas
First Post
IMC we have clerics able to spontaneously cast domain spells as well as healing spells (no restrictions)
we now have 2 clerics in a party of 6 (one warrior orientated (Strength and Destruction), one spell orientated (Fire and Luck))
doesnt seem to have effected the game too much though since we only have multi-class spell casters (Centaur / Wiz and Rog / Sorc) its difficult to compare it relative to a pure wizard or sorcerer
but I have 2 players happily playing clerics, which is a first.
The only tweak i might consider is reducing the numbers of spells on the standards lists, and potentially offering more domain spells per level. Since most of the group came through AD&D, 2nd edition and into 3.5E we all seem to harken back to speciality clerics and i have an old priests handbook that i use for inspiration
we now have 2 clerics in a party of 6 (one warrior orientated (Strength and Destruction), one spell orientated (Fire and Luck))
doesnt seem to have effected the game too much though since we only have multi-class spell casters (Centaur / Wiz and Rog / Sorc) its difficult to compare it relative to a pure wizard or sorcerer
but I have 2 players happily playing clerics, which is a first.
The only tweak i might consider is reducing the numbers of spells on the standards lists, and potentially offering more domain spells per level. Since most of the group came through AD&D, 2nd edition and into 3.5E we all seem to harken back to speciality clerics and i have an old priests handbook that i use for inspiration
Nifft
Penguin Herder
IMHO the normal Domain spell lists tread too heavily on the Arcane lists on the one hand, and have too many spells that become useless at high levels on the other hand. So I re-wrote them with an eye towards being useful as spontaneous "substitutes" for cure spells.
http://fishnet.cx/~josh/DnD/DHE/domains3.5.shtml
Cheers, -- N
http://fishnet.cx/~josh/DnD/DHE/domains3.5.shtml
Cheers, -- N
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