D&D General D&D Editions: Anybody Else Feel Like They Don't Fit In?

[dave2008]

What's missing from WotC 5e is any use of the character-design space between "commoner" and "1st-level character". It's into that gap where these optional novice levels would go; 5e as designed has room for maybe two or three such levels (in 4e it was more like four or five), so why not make use of that design space?

I already consider 5e levels 1 & 2 as novice and we added a level 0. 3 novice levels is enough for us.

 

[Guest 7037866]

I already consider 5e levels 1 & 2 as novice and we added a level 0. 3 novice levels is enough for us.

We do level 0 as well, just race and background, but we "enhanced" backgrounds to include possible armor and weapon proficiencies and race grants a HD based on size, with maximum HP. BUT when PCs reach level 1 and choose a class they have to roll for their HD.

 

[dave2008]

We do level 0 as well, just race and background, but we "enhanced" backgrounds to include possible armor and weapon proficiencies and race grants a HD based on size, with maximum HP. BUT when PCs reach level 1 and choose a class they have to roll for their HD.

That is similar to us. It has been about 8 years since we started at level 0, so my memory could be a bit hazy. But level 0 was:
Background + Race + 125gp. You start with 1hp and your BHP*

BHP = Bloodied Hit Point. These are actually meat points in our game. Your BHP = your size (M=1) x (Str Mod + Con Mod).

 

[Lanefan]

That is similar to us. It has been about 8 years since we started at level 8, so my memory could be a bit hazy. But level 0 was:
Background + Race + 125gp. You start with 1hp and your BHP*

BHP = Bloodied Hit Point. These are actually meat points in our game. Your BHP = your size (M=1) x (Str Mod + Con Mod).

We have Body Points (BP), which serve a similar function. Depending on species and Con score, most characters start with 2 to 5 of these; and they're also the only hit points most commoners get. In other words, every PC-playable creature has these BP (and monster hit points are usually all or mostly BP) but only levelled types get Fatigue Points (i.e. normal by-level hit points) to go with them.

 

[dave2008]

We have Body Points (BP), which serve a similar function. Depending on species and Con score, most characters start with 2 to 5 of these; and they're also the only hit points most commoners get. In other words, every PC-playable creature has these BP (and monster hit points are usually all or mostly BP) but only levelled types get Fatigue Points (i.e. normal by-level hit points) to go with them.

Yep that sounds pretty much like what we do. However, I give all monsters BHP & HP as well.

 

[Jahydin]

The fact Kinks and Cantrips for D&D is a Mithral Best Seller on Drive-Thru has me all sorts of confused about the current state of the game and its fandom...

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yep that sounds pretty much like what we do. However, I give all monsters BHP & HP as well.

What if you flip the script on this, though? What if your hit points really are just the hit points you normally list, and then separately you have, say, a limited pool, call it "Vitality", from which you can draw to restore your hit points proper? Limited both in how fast and how much. Would that achieve the same overall end?

 

[dave2008]

What if you flip the script on this, though? What if your hit points really are just the hit points you normally list, and then separately you have, say, a limited pool, call it "Vitality", from which you can draw to restore your hit points proper? Limited both in how fast and how much. Would that achieve the same overall end?

I am not quite following what you are asking / suggesting. To hopefully help, I will explain what we do in more detail.

Hit Points:

• No different than standard 5e.
• Calculated the same and function the same.
• Recovered that same (or whatever rest and recovery variant you want)

Bloodied Hit Points:

• These are a separate fool of "vitality" points.
• They are based on size x (Str mod + con mod). Medium is (1), so for PCs: 1x (Str mod + con mod).
• These do not increase w/ level.
• You only take BHP damage on a critical hit (which is target AC +10 or save DC -10) or after your HP = 0.
• You die at 0 BHP
• Natural recovery of BHP is 1 BHP per extended rest (1 week) with bonuses (in time and or amount of recovery) for successful medicine checks and barber's tools ( healing kit, etc.).
• BHP can be recovered by magic at the rate of 1 BHP/ 10 HP of healing magic.
• Armor DR only comes into effect when you would take BHP damage. The BHP damage is reduce by your armors DR.

So we have a separate pool of vitality points; however, it more than just another pool of hit points. Simply drawing from those to restore HP wouldn't achieve all of what we are doing with BHP. If I understand what you are suggesting / asking.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I am not quite following what you are asking / suggesting. To hopefully help, I will explain what we do in more detail.

Hit Points:

• No different than standard 5e.
• Calculated the same and function the same.
• Recovered that same (or whatever rest and recovery variant you want)

Bloodied Hit Points:

• These are a separate fool of "vitality" points.
• They are based on size x (Str mod + con mod). Medium is (1), so for PCs: 1x (Str mod + con mod).
• These do not increase w/ level.
• You only take BHP damage on a critical hit (which is target AC +10 or save DC -10) or after your HP = 0.
• You die at 0 BHP
• Natural recovery of BHP is 1 BHP per extended rest (1 week) with bonuses (in time and or amount of recovery) for successful medicine checks and barber's tools ( healing kit, etc.).
• BHP can be recovered by magic at the rate of 1 BHP/ 10 HP of healing magic.
• Armor DR only comes into effect when you would take BHP damage. The BHP damage is reduce by your armors DR.

So we have a separate pool of vitality points; however, it more than just another pool of hit points. Simply drawing from those to restore HP wouldn't achieve all of what we are doing with BHP. If I understand what you are suggesting / asking.

This "Vitality" pool would also only come back slowly. I wouldn't do 1/week myself because I consider that overwhelmingly punitive, but different groups could certainly go for varying rates at which they're recovered. No HP healing, or at least none of any meaningful/repeatable source, could be had unless you have Vitality to support it. If you want heals, you need to spend Vitality to get it.

In this context, the Vitality pool could not be restored by spells. Nothing--nothing at all--except rest could restore them, though maybe you could use magic to exchange them between people. And if you run out of Hit Points while your Vitality pool is empty...good luck!

 

[Image Miroir]

I started more or less at the same time you did, and it seems to me we could have this discussion 40 years ago as AD&D was not really good to play the style of "Arthurian legends, The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, or Conan".
I'm sure you remember the debates about the hit points... D&D3 pushed that default even further, as you have HD even beyond level 10. If you had the easier way to succeed saving throws and to get XP, for sure the flavor is not the same. We escaped the Y2T bug only to enter the age of "snow flakes mechanics". The new motto: do not frustrate or hurt the feelings and emotions of the kids. This turning point was enforced with 4th and 5th editions. Now, in the Monster Manual, they call wolves what we nicknamed long-hair chihuahua! And what could be said when a single campaign can bring you from level 1 to level 20?

For some of us, to feel epic we need a significative level of risk. The solution then is to orient toward other game mechanics like: Runequest, Pendragon or even Ars Magica. Obviously Pendragon is perfect to play Arthurian legends, but also all the influence you named (and even Games of Thrones). Runequest is also perfect for universes like Conan (or The Witcher); and Ars Magica can make magic feeling like... magic.

Remember, when looking at D&D5: "the truth is ou there!"