D&D Encounters: Admission charge or free?

[MerricB]

Hi, all--

G'day, Charles!

Thanks for your insights.

May I inquire as to how the Wednesday-only restriction on the D&D Encounters is working in the UK?

Cheers!

 

[Shazman]

Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) was created in 1974 by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, and is the grandfather of all roleplaying games (RPGs). The game of D&D involves a group of players, one of whom is the Dungeon Master (DM), going through an adventure in a fantasy world. It is the DM's responsibility to not only referee the rules of the game, but to bring the adventure to life through vivid descriptions and exciting encounters.

I fail to see how this is relevant to the discussion. Are you trying to say that the DM should be compensated for running sessions?

 

[Saracenus]

As the D&D Organizer (D&D Encounters, LFR, and the World Wide Gamedays) here in Portland, OR (Shout out to Guardian Games, Angel you rock!) I will say that our venue realizes that it is better to get lots of traffic than to nickle and dime players for the play space.

We currently have run 4 tables of D&D Encounters for Session 1 and will probably expand to 5 soon. All of the judges volunteer their time but do get store discounts for their efforts. This is in addition to the DM rewards that come with the program. Folks are definitely buying from GG.

As a Premier Store, Guardian Games now get its D&D releases (Books, Accessories, Novels) 11 days advance of the street date. I got my pre-ordered PH3 11 days ahead of Amazon (with a 20% discount). Now, my store is a top tier Wizards store so we get the 11 day jump, others will get a 5 day jump.

WotC is making moves to support the local gaming stores and giving them incentives to push their products. There is no reason to charge for the space if folks are going to buy product from you. Its just short-sighted and dumb.

My Two Coppers,

Bryan Blumklotz
Guardians of the Gameday Organizer
Guardians of the Gameday : Event Overview

 

[Smeelbo]

Actual Costs of Running D&D Encounters

I hope any stores that engage in this sort of shady behavior are suitably punished for it. They should lose their WPN membership and hopefully lose a good deal of business from customers disgusted with such unsavory practices. I know I would not patronize a store that did this and would encourage fellow gamers to avoid the place as well.

We aren't charging for the Encounters, which we are starting Wednesday 3/24, but let me tell you:

• If I weren't "volunteering," my time would cost the store over $12/hour, including insurance and benefits. Luckily, I've "volunteered."
• If Wednesday were a big Magic night, we could be filling those seats at $6-10/player instead. Luckily, Wednesday is already our regular D&D night.
• Not all the necessary materials are actually provided by Wizards. To run the Encounters well, the DM needs access to the both the Forgotten Realms Campaign and Player's Guide. Exactly who should eat the cost of those books? Not me. The Campaign Guide is the most expensive regular 4E book in print.
• Electricity and Air Conditioning is not free of cost.
• Who is paying for the copy of Character Builder in store? Currently, I am.

So yeah, a store might be perfectly justified in charging a fee to play.

When you run a business, when you have to meet insurance and payroll and rent, then you can talk to me about what should and shouldn't be free.

Smeelbo

 

[Saracenus]

We aren't charging for the Encounters, which we are starting Wednesday 3/24, but let me tell you:

• If I weren't "volunteering," my time would cost the store over $12/hour, including insurance and benefits. Luckily, I've "volunteered."
• If Wednesday were a big Magic night, we could be filling those seats at $6-10/player instead. Luckily, Wednesday is already our regular D&D night.
• Not all the necessary materials are actually provided by Wizards. To run the Encounters well, the DM needs access to the both the Forgotten Realms Campaign and Player's Guide. Exactly who should eat the cost of those books? Not me. The Campaign Guide is the most expensive regular 4E book in print.
• Electricity and Air Conditioning is not free of cost.
• Who is paying for the copy of Character Builder in store? Currently, I am.

So yeah, a store might be perfectly justified in charging a fee to play.

When you run a business, when you have to meet insurance and payroll and rent, then you can talk to me about what should and shouldn't be free.

Smeelbo

And if your business is not meeting those costs by selling things then you have a problem. Guardian Games sells food and drink to its players in addition to the fine gaming merchandise available..

Trust me, charging for a seat is not going to meet your Fixed and Variable Costs. It does not move product off your shelf. You want traffic and folks that are willing to buy your stuff.

That's all I got to say...

 

[tmatk]

All this hoopla over 5 bucks? Sheesh, that's a cup of coffee...

 

[Shazman]

We aren't charging for the Encounters, which we are starting Wednesday 3/24, but let me tell you:

• If I weren't "volunteering," my time would cost the store over $12/hour, including insurance and benefits. Luckily, I've "volunteered."
• If Wednesday were a big Magic night, we could be filling those seats at $6-10/player instead. Luckily, Wednesday is already our regular D&D night.
• Not all the necessary materials are actually provided by Wizards. To run the Encounters well, the DM needs access to the both the Forgotten Realms Campaign and Player's Guide. Exactly who should eat the cost of those books? Not me. The Campaign Guide is the most expensive regular 4E book in print.
• Electricity and Air Conditioning is not free of cost.
• Who is paying for the copy of Character Builder in store? Currently, I am.

So yeah, a store might be perfectly justified in charging a fee to play.

When you run a business, when you have to meet insurance and payroll and rent, then you can talk to me about what should and shouldn't be free.

Smeelbo

I understand that there are a lot of costs involved in running a game store, but charging customers for something that most gamers expect to be free seems to be quite counterproductive in the long run. Would you really want to pay 5 dollars to try a game you may or may like during a promotional event that practically every venue doesn't charge for? Wouldn't you feel ripped off and taken advantage of if you payed the "entrance fee" for an event and later found out most of the other stores ran it for free? That is a good way to alienate potential customers. I may be mistaken, but I had thought that charging for game days, etc. was actively discouraged or even prohibited by WotC.

 

[CharlesRyan]

I'm kinda amazed that any UK games shops have regular gaming on site; ground rents here are so outrageous (we have around 1/10 the shop floor space by population that the US does) that I'm very surprised any can afford it.

Everything you say is true, across the UK and especially in London. Despite that, a fair number of shops feel that despite the cost, they can't afford NOT to have OP space.

In this day and age, a shop needs to offer something the internet can't: in gaming, that's community and an opportunity to try games and meet other players. That's a shop's competitive advantage over the internet--especially here in the UK where (compared to the US) prices are high, disposable income is low, and any price advantage is magnified.

It's a shame that one of the world's greatest cities--London--doesn't have a single games shop with OP space, but as you say rents are crazy. (Even Manhattan has at least two shops with OP space--one with a fair amount!) Get outside of London, though, and you'll find a fair few that have decided the costs are worth it. Eclectic, Patriot, Fanboy 3, The Games Shop, Kingdom of Adventure, and a fair number of others have done the math and decided that despite the cost it pays off in the end.

They can be forgiven for charging a quid or two to play. Not just because of whinging about the costs, but also because they are delivering a real, valuable service to the customer.

 

[S'mon]

Everything you say is true, across the UK and especially in London. Despite that, a fair number of shops feel that despite the cost, they can't afford NOT to have OP space.

In this day and age, a shop needs to offer something the internet can't: in gaming, that's community and an opportunity to try games and meet other players. That's a shop's competitive advantage over the internet--especially here in the UK where (compared to the US) prices are high, disposable income is low, and any price advantage is magnified.

It's a shame that one of the world's greatest cities--London--doesn't have a single games shop with OP space, but as you say rents are crazy. (Even Manhattan has at least two shops with OP space--one with a fair amount!) Get outside of London, though, and you'll find a fair few that have decided the costs are worth it. Eclectic, Patriot, Fanboy 3, The Games Shop, Kingdom of Adventure, and a fair number of others have done the math and decided that despite the cost it pays off in the end.

They can be forgiven for charging a quid or two to play. Not just because of whinging about the costs, but also because they are delivering a real, valuable service to the customer.

Thanks for your informed insights, Charles.

As far as London games shops go - Orc's Nest and (to a slightly lesser extent) Forbidden Planet are on my regular monthly route from work to osteopath - I have to go right past Orc's Nest anyway, so if I have time I like to go in and browse, buy anything that looks interesting if it's not too expensive. Playin' Games at the British Museum tends to only have old RPG stock, not discounted, but I look in every year or so and typically buy some old product at full price for a game I don't even play - eg I got Terran Empire for Star Hero there.

Leisure Games up in Finchley is the Place of Pilgrimage - it's nearly a 4 hour round trip from my home in south London, but I go there yearly when my friend Craig/Upper_Krust is in town, and we spend a load of money (maybe £120-£150 between us). LG also has the advantage of friendly service and a welcoming atmosphere, so it's a real treat. LG also have a great mail order service, fast & cheap p&p; but now that amazon do free delivery I've tended to buy the majority of mail order stuff from them even though it's slower. The exception is miniatures - I pretty much only buy DDM singles, which means mail order from a few specialist online retailers like Tritex Games.

 

[wedgeski]

Leisure Games up in Finchley is the Place of Pilgrimage - it's nearly a 4 hour round trip from my home in south London, but I go there yearly when my friend Craig/Upper_Krust is in town, and we spend a load of money (maybe £120-£150 between us). LG also has the advantage of friendly service and a welcoming atmosphere, so it's a real treat.

I've bought all of my mail order RPG stuff from Leisure Games for years. Terrific service. I really should make a pilgrimage myself there one day.