D&D Expeditions: DDEX3-2 Shackles of Blood (spoilers)

An excuse to transplant this from the Wizards' board, where I was replying to Pauper:

I ran this five times at GenCon.


The final copy is much clearer than the playtest. Explanations of things have changed, and some additional possible PC actions are accounted for. The flow and mechanical details are just about the same, however.


This module generally runs quickly. It fits in the 3.5 hour GenCon slot, unlike some others at the con. Pauper covered the story flow, so I will only get into that where events can branch out and differ. So, spoilers!
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People liked my puppet show, what can I say. There's time available to ham up the acting, throw in some biggoted guard dialog later, and (sometimes) detail the final rioting.


The party arrives at a valley that is the site of burned down halfling homes and some new building. Potentially, they will swallow the story of the humans who are present. ("Elves attacked.") Not likely though, as the PCs can also talk to a human miller and an elf (Deriel) in hiding who have the real story - it was the Red Plumes of Hillsfar.


Here is the first branch point: The PCs are going to go after the Red Plumes, and they will either follow the elf into an ambush or be suspicious. Or go by themselves and have the same fight. The real branch point is whether they surrender, lose quickly, or drag it out. The fight doesn't scale upward, so a very strong party can win or escape.


I'm not real happy with this design. Another module at the convention also had a "supposed to lose" fight as well, so some players saw two of them. Besides the heavy-handed writing, a long fight eats into time, and a fight where some PCs escape then requires complicated management by the DM. I saw pretty much every possible outcome.


So, PCs captured and wheeled off to Hillsfar along with the halflings they were looking for. Depending on the time, they can banter with the evil mastermind, console the halflings, etc. As Pauper observed, though, they probably recover all their resources before the next fight.


Hillsfar is full of crazy people, an indication of the Rage of Demons storyline. PCs get examined and sold at the arena, a scene I prefer not to put a lot of detail into, but it's another RP opportunity.


The arena fight is fun and three-dimensional. I did run this after Epic3 for some players who saw both modules, and they didn't let on about it being a let-down. But, I see the point. More problematic, the enemy halflings probably have too many hitpoints to beat in a straight-up fight. But, the audience riots at some point, and that can easily be before the PCs are in too bad a shape.


(Parenthetically, I had two groups that never got to the arena fight. One was because they were powerful and cut a deal with the Red Plumes, the other because some PCs escaped they wanted to try a breakout the night before. Always say yes to your players by default. For these, I manufactured a setting below the arena in which the guards let out the rabid enemy halflings to deal with escaping PCs.)


One thing Pauper didn't see is other possible interactions with Deriel. She's thrown in with the PCs before the arena fight, despondent because she has lost her drow lover from 3-1 part 2. PCs can treat her like dirt (and she kills herself) or they can cheer her up, earning XP and a possible ally.


At the end of the arena fight, the evil mastermind (see above) d-doors in to pick up the fight while the audience is rioting. Various things can happen. He's powerful enough on his own that I usually leave his guards behind. (Arena guards, actually, not as strong as the Red Plumes.) Some groups beat him (with difficulty); at least one just ran.


At this point, the great escape, entirely in narration. The PCs know where the halflings are to be rescued, down in the utility rooms of the arena. They should just choose that route for their exit. I don't know why a DM wouldn't just decree this to be the plan.


There's an awkwardness as I see it regarding Deriel's drow lover from 3-1. If Deriel was cheered up and survived, the PCs can also rescue him from the arena cages. But, as I understand it, the drow most often dies in the prior module.


In conclusion, I like the storyline except for the manditory loss. That could have just been done with narration, or the whole module could be restructured to avoid it. The fact that at least 2 other stories out there have the same gimmick means, though, that someone likes it a lot. There's plenty of opportunity for RP in this and the time to do it.


We have to wait for future modules for the consequences of the rioting in Hillsfar. Both 3-3 and 3-4 take place in the Underdark. Epic 3 didn't mention it, but that has a narrow scope.
 

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1) Another module at the convention also had a "supposed to lose" fight as well, so some players saw two of them.

2) I understand it, the drow most often dies in the prior module.

1) To my knowledge, and the same for all the other Admins as I just asked them, there are no other adventures that have a fight you are supposed to loose. Maybe you were talking with another DM/Player that had also played 3-2 previously and got confused?

2) Unless the PCs kill him, its nearly impossible to kill him off unless the DM just chooses to decree it. I know I have never seen it happen and since he's in several adventures this season (poor unlucky guy), that would add to player confusion.
 

There are others that have a similar theme.

[sblock] Mayhem in the Earthspur Mines starts in an arena and one of the hooks is "Blood for the Boar Pit", the party is somehow captured and thrown in the arena. It happens off screen, but is also a bad idea. Why wouldn't you attack the Arena owners who enslaved you and forced you to fight?

Boltsmelters Book begins with an overwhelming fight the PCs are required to retreat from. Hopefully they figure it out before they start dropping.[/sblock]

I don't know who is approving these concepts. I realize sometimes PC's lose (I've had 2 characters die in AL), but to create an encounter that is specifically designed for characters to surrender and/or lose is a bad idea. These encounters remove even the illusion of choice on the players part and most of them do not enjoy it.

It only requires a little creativity to come up with ideas that remove the need for these types of encounters, I wish it would happen before the adventures are released.
 
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Not every fight is winnable. Players should understand the fact that their characters live in a virtual world, but that world operates on some real world concepts - including the fact that sometimes you might get into fights well above your weight class that you have no hope of winning.

At least PCs no longer face the fear of instant-kill no-save traps any longer. Those have not been seen since the Adnd 2E era. Still, it pays to have your character humbled from time to time.
 


Im running this , this weekend along with a fellow dm (our first local double running! :) ). I had advised him the Ambush encounter needs to be played out straight to the point with a mind to capturing the pcs.

I think my tables will attempt to possibly fight at the camp because there are 6/1 wizard as opposed to the Captain and 12. Just a feeling I have.
 

At least PCs no longer face the fear of instant-kill no-save traps any longer. Those have not been seen since the Adnd 2E era. Still, it pays to have your character humbled from time to time.
You must have missed out on 3 and 3.5? I, not so fondly, remember the room in an LG metaregional with 3 Bodaks that had their save or die DC severely boosted. :)
 

I said nothing about removing save or die effects. I also said nothing about specific modules as that falls to the author. I was talking about no-save and die effects (you enter a room. You die. No save)

There might have been the odd exception in 3.5 - but as a rule instant death no save was one of the things 3.5 tried to abolish. And no - I was highly active in 3.0 and 3.5 (RPGA judge and very active forum member of WotC since 2001)
 

Running Part 1:
[sblock]Adventure Structure
Things can get a bit complicated here. Speaking with my review-hat on, there's an attempt here to allow players a lot of agency, but eventually end up with them being captured. Which I dislike intensely. Don't mind agency, do mind the specifics of how the capturing occurs.

This section begins with the party reaching the farms and (possibly) learning things about what happened to the halflings. They then either follow the Red Plumes or get led by Deriel into an ambush. If they follow the Red Plumes, they have a chance to rescue the halflings or be captured. If they rescue the halflings, then you have to find a way to capture then. If they follow Deriel, the either escape the Red Plumes (and possibly then make their way to their camp) or they get captured.

When considering play in a limited time-slot, this isn't really to be desired. Either it is over very quickly, or it takes forever to run. You'll be fine at home, but in a convention you don't have the time to play with. The capturing is made worse by the Red Plumes having entirely too low attack bonuses: a +3 to hit is not good enough against AC 18+, which even 1st level characters can have.

(This structure also explains why the adventure can run very short. There's not that much adventure except for the awesome arena fight later. But this section can go by in a flash as well if the party surrender...)

A potential modification
This modification is problematic. It changes some of the structure of the adventure. I'd be very wary of using it.
Have Deriel lead the group to the halflings. They're guarded by an insufficient Red Plume force. The party rescue the halflings, only to have Deriel slip away before the combat and alert the Red Plumes. An overwhelming force then captures the party (no combat, just say "you're then captured and put in carts").

In a home game, I'd have no problem with this modification. In an AL game? Not so good.

Things to watch out for
Timing. The thing which makes Shackles of Blood awesome is the arena battle (and its follow-up). It can run long. Spending 90 minutes on this section may be too long, and it could easily run to that if you end up with two big battles against the Red Plumes. (Unlikely, but possible).

My preferred way to handle this section is to do a lot of early role-playing to set the scene amongst the farmers, then have any confrontation with the Red Plumes end very quickly with the players surrendering. I am not adverse to just saying "You lose and are captured" if that is all the timing will permit. Or "At this point, fifth more Red Plumes come over the hillside. You are overcome."[/sblock]

Anyone else have further thoughts on running this section?

Cheers!
 
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Based on a table of this I ran.

[sblock]I'd have the red plumes not have an overwhelming force. The red plumes could be quickly defeated and some of the halflings freed. Have the orc not be there or get away.

At my table the elf and the few halflings still in the camp pleaded with the characters to rescue their loved ones. Then here is how players got into the arena.

One player was Zhent. He bribed his way in, by letting his contact sell him to the arena.
The humans in the party simply went to watch at the arena.
The Druid snuck in as a rat after being carried by the Zhent.

They, um, actually defeated the Red Plumes through a combination of my very bad rolls and planning and their very good planning and forethought.
[/sblock]
 

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