darjr
I crit!
That actually sounds awesome, besides that the mod took to long, because that's not good. I'll have to take another look at the mod, but I do think what happened at your table is covered. I guess we'll have to disagree, to a degree.
D&D Expeditions: DDEX3-2 Shackles of Blood (spoilers)
- Thread starter MerricB
- Start date
That actually sounds awesome, besides that the mod took to long, because that's not good. I'll have to take another look at the mod, but I do think what happened at your table is covered. I guess we'll have to disagree, to a degree.
I ran this last week. I had heard about the numerous complaints, and made some pretty heavy changes to the story arc presented in the module. These changes might be beyond the scope of an AL DM's rights to alter a module, but you know what? Everyone loved it. I've been running Expeditions almost every Thursday since February, and got more positive feedback that session than any other.
The major changes:
[sblock]
During their investigation at the Tinfellow valley, one of the players notices a flash of light from a nearby copse of trees. It strikes his eyes again. Someone is trying to get his attention. They go to investigate, and Deriel reveals herself. She says she recognizes them based on a description provided by her lover, Arizz. She knows where the halflings are, but if they want her help, she'll need theirs.
The players consented. She revealed that Arizz was was taken captive by the Red Plumes. They were brutal with him, particularly the half-orc Breex. She wants vengeance. She gives them directions to the Red Plume camp and instructions to kill them, and to rendezvous at a predetermined location after they're done, while she is busy preparing for the next phase, where they will rescue the halflings. My table was already prejudiced against the RPs, so there wasn't any argument on this. If your table isn't so sure about attacking them, Deriel may suggest the RPs are acting far outside their jurisdiction, and have been killing/abducting demihumans. In any case, the PCs get a chance to ambush the camp, gaining a surprise round, and making that encounter easy enough. Breex will attempt to escape early in the fight, using Dimension Door if necessary. I played him as more of a coward than the module suggests. There's no horn to call for backup in the camp.
Upon returning to Deriel, she reveals the halflings and Arizz were taken to the arena. She says the safest way to get to the arena is to allow themselves to be captured. She says she won't be remiss if they bloody the RPs a little in the process of being taken. I gave her a cloak of invisibility, and she said she will hide herself atop the caged wagon the RPs use, and facilitate their escape once inside the arena. The players put up a good fight, but allowed themselves to be captured. However, inside the arena, the guards posted around them prevent her from releasing them. She is able to sneak her magic rapier into their equipment before the fight, though.
They do the arena fight, including Breex. Once he's down, one of the entries to the arena opens, with Deriel in the doorway. She yells for the characters to come. She's found Arizz and the halflings, and they make good their escape through the sewers, and eventually out of Hillsfar, with the aid of Deriel's friend, a demihuman sympathizer. Move to the conclusion.
[/sblock]
The major changes:
[sblock]
During their investigation at the Tinfellow valley, one of the players notices a flash of light from a nearby copse of trees. It strikes his eyes again. Someone is trying to get his attention. They go to investigate, and Deriel reveals herself. She says she recognizes them based on a description provided by her lover, Arizz. She knows where the halflings are, but if they want her help, she'll need theirs.
The players consented. She revealed that Arizz was was taken captive by the Red Plumes. They were brutal with him, particularly the half-orc Breex. She wants vengeance. She gives them directions to the Red Plume camp and instructions to kill them, and to rendezvous at a predetermined location after they're done, while she is busy preparing for the next phase, where they will rescue the halflings. My table was already prejudiced against the RPs, so there wasn't any argument on this. If your table isn't so sure about attacking them, Deriel may suggest the RPs are acting far outside their jurisdiction, and have been killing/abducting demihumans. In any case, the PCs get a chance to ambush the camp, gaining a surprise round, and making that encounter easy enough. Breex will attempt to escape early in the fight, using Dimension Door if necessary. I played him as more of a coward than the module suggests. There's no horn to call for backup in the camp.
Upon returning to Deriel, she reveals the halflings and Arizz were taken to the arena. She says the safest way to get to the arena is to allow themselves to be captured. She says she won't be remiss if they bloody the RPs a little in the process of being taken. I gave her a cloak of invisibility, and she said she will hide herself atop the caged wagon the RPs use, and facilitate their escape once inside the arena. The players put up a good fight, but allowed themselves to be captured. However, inside the arena, the guards posted around them prevent her from releasing them. She is able to sneak her magic rapier into their equipment before the fight, though.
They do the arena fight, including Breex. Once he's down, one of the entries to the arena opens, with Deriel in the doorway. She yells for the characters to come. She's found Arizz and the halflings, and they make good their escape through the sewers, and eventually out of Hillsfar, with the aid of Deriel's friend, a demihuman sympathizer. Move to the conclusion.
[/sblock]
Tyranthraxus
Explorer
I had no issue with this scenario. Ive run it as written 3 times, and only once did the palyers willingly surrender. The rest were beaten into unconciousness.
I definitely like your more proactive, competent Deriel. Personally, I don't think you've gone outside the bounds of what's AL-legal. It sounds like all the encounters are right from the module itself, and it's always seemed to me that content is more important than motivation where AL play is concerned. I.e., they could've played this under a different DM and had the same encounters, and thus faced the same challenges, but for different reasons.
On paper it seems like your alterations may make the PCs feel like they're just taking orders from an NPC (and being railroaded in the process), but hey, if it works it works!
Your assessment is fair, but the alternative of running the module as written is they get railroaded by having their butts kicked unintentionally. I did present Deriel's recommendation of them being captured as a choice. She told them where the halflings were after raiding Breex's camp, and if the players resolved to get into the arena on their own terms, she/I as the DM would've permitted that choice.
The players had already formed a pretty bleak opinion of the Red Plumes after a tense stand-off in DDEX3-1. Deriel just affirmed their attitudes, and offered an undisclosed reward (which ended up being the rapier) for rescuing Arizz to encourage their cooperation. When devising these changes, I looked at it less as railroading and more as creating a sequence of events the players would be inclined to follow.
The players had already formed a pretty bleak opinion of the Red Plumes after a tense stand-off in DDEX3-1. Deriel just affirmed their attitudes, and offered an undisclosed reward (which ended up being the rapier) for rescuing Arizz to encourage their cooperation. When devising these changes, I looked at it less as railroading and more as creating a sequence of events the players would be inclined to follow.
Oh, don't get me wrong -- I definitely prefer your version to the module as written. I think it's a little difficult to adjust this one to be not-railroady when it feels so, I dunno, motivated to get to that final fight.
[sblock]This just occurred to me, and I don't think I can really put this into words that'll make sense to anyone but me, but... to me it also has the veneer of open-endedness in the set-up. "Go find out what happened to those halflings." Then you discover that oh-ho, these humans moved in on the halflings' land and are clearly lying about it! So there's a mystery to solve! Then it's "Nope, just get captured and go for a wagon ride until we reach the next fight scene -- and don't worry about the the mystery, because it'll solve itself in the denouement." Not to be too dramatic, but it feels like a bit of a bait-and-switch.
Compare that to The Oubliette of Fort Iron, an extremely linear module in which you're literally just trudging through a long corridor of obstacles with nowhere else to go but forward, with no real idea what's going on (possibly ever!), driven only by the lure of wealth that never really pays off. That's at least as railroady as Shackles, but it's pretty clear from the start that it's a straight-up dungeon crawl, so in the two times I've played it I never felt like I was chained to a pre-determined plot simply because, well, that's what dungeon crawls usually are, so it was a lot easier to accept.
I dunno, it's a psychological thing; I don't really expect anyone to share my opinion in this regard.[/sblock]
No, I agree. And it's the difference between good railroading and bad railroading.
In good railroading, the characters are railroaded into an action that they were likely to take anyway. As a rule, players accept this in OP adventures (and APs) because they want to play the adventure, and having guiderails to help them along the path is expected. One of the reasons dungeons work is that they limit the PCs in a natural fashion.
In bad railroading, the characters are railroaded into an action that they had little chance of choosing. It's particularly egregious when what they were planning to do was interesting to them, and what they're forced to do isn't. This adventure represents itself as one thing before becoming another, but makes it worse by allowing the PCs to actually spend quite a bit of time investigating *before* pulling the rug from under their feet.
There's a few adventures this season in which the structure is a bit weak in my opinion (although I'm sure many players will enjoy them). I'll have to see if I can get an increased role in helping get them developed.
Cheers!
warfteiner
First Post
Y'know, we're always looking for people to join the play testing army. We also periodically do an open call for designers -- if you're looking at getting involved in the future of the Adventurers League, these options are great methods to use!
I'm in the former and sent in a submission to be the latter! I'm doing all I can!
Actually, speaking of being a playtester, while I wasn't able to playtest Shackles, I did submit a fairly detailed review wherein I brought up all of these (what I perceived to be) problems, but it doesn't look like anything changed. So, y'know. I'm doing all I can!
warfteiner
First Post
Fantastic, keep it up! More & better feedback helps us build out a stronger play experience and more cohesive storylines.
