D&D Historian Benn Riggs On Gary Gygax & Sexism

D&D historian Ben Riggs delved into the facts.

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The recent book The Making of Original Dungeons & Dragons 1970-1977 talks about the early years of D&D. In the book, authors Jon Peterson and Jason Tondro talk about the way the game, and its writers, approached certain issues. Not surprisingly, this revelation received aggressive "pushback" on social media because, well, that sort of thing does--in fact, one designer who worked with Gygax at the time labelled it "slanderous".

D&D historian Ben Riggs--author of Slaying the Dragon--delved into the facts. Note that the below was posted on Twitter, in that format, not as an article.

D&D Co-Creator Gary Gygax was Sexist. Talking About it is Key to Preserving his Legacy.

The internet has been rending its clothes and gnashing its teeth over the introduction to an instant classic of TTRPG history, The Making of Original D&D 1970-1977. Published by Wizards of the Coast, it details the earliest days of D&D’s creation using amazing primary source materials.

Why then has the response been outrage from various corners of the internet? Well authors Jon Peterson and Jason Tondro mention that early D&D made light of slavery, disparaged women, and gave Hindu deities hit points. They also repeated Wizard’s disclaimer for legacy content which states:"These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed."

In response to this, an army of grognards swarmed social media to bite their shields and bellow. Early D&D author Rob Kuntz described Peterson and Tondro’s work as “slanderous.” On his Castle Oldskull blog, Kent David Kelly called it “disparagement.” These critics are accusing Peterson and Tondro of dishonesty. Lying, not to put too fine a point on it.So, are they lying? Are they making stuff up about Gary Gygax and early D&D?

Well, let's look at a specific example of what Peterson and Tondro describe as “misogyny “ from 1975's Greyhawk. Greyhawk was the first supplement ever produced for D&D. Written by Gary Gygax and Rob Kuntz, the same Rob Kuntz who claimed slander above, it was a crucial text in the history of the game. For example, it debuted the thief character class. It also gave the game new dragons, among them the King of Lawful Dragons and the Queen of Chaotic Dragons. The male dragon is good, and female dragon is evil. (See Appendix 1 below for more.)

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It is a repetition of the old trope that male power is inherently good, and female power is inherently evil. (Consider the connotations of the words witch and wizard, with witches being evil by definition, for another example.)

Now so-called defenders of Gygax and Kuntz will say that my reading of the above text makes me a fool who wouldn’t know dragon’s breath from a virtue signal. I am ruining D&D with my woke wokeness. Gygax and Kuntz were just building a fun game, and decades later, Peterson and Tondro come along to crap on their work by screeching about misogyny.

(I would also point out that as we are all white men of a certain age talking about misogyny, the worst we can expect is to be flamed online. Women often doing the same thing get rape or death threats.)

Critics of their work would say that Peterson and Tondro are reading politics into D&D. Except that when we return to the Greyhawk text, we see that it was actually Gygax and Kuntz who put “politics” into D&D.

The text itself comments on the fact that the lawful dragon is male, and the chaotic one is female. Gygax and Kuntz wrote: “Women’s lib may make whatever they wish from the foregoing.”


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The intent is clear. The female is a realm of chaos and evil, so of course they made their chaotic evil dragon a queen.

Yes, Gygax and Kuntz are making a game, but it is a game whose co-creator explicitly wrote into the rules that feminine power—perhaps even female equality—is by nature evil. There is little room for any other interpretation.

The so-called defenders of Gygax may now say that he was a man of his time, he didn’t know better, or some such. If only someone had told him women were people too in 1975! Well, Gygax was criticized for this fact of D&D at the time. And he left us his response.

Writing in EUROPA, a European fanzine, Gygax said:“I have been accused of being a nasty old sexist-male-Chauvinist-pig, for the wording in D&D isn’t what it should be. There should be more emphasis on the female role, more non-gendered names, and so forth."

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"I thought perhaps these folks were right and considered adding women in the ‘Raping and Pillaging[’] section, in the ‘Whores and Tavern Wenches’ chapter, the special magical part dealing with ‘Hags and Crones’...and thought perhaps of adding an appendix on ‘Medieval Harems, Slave Girls, and Going Viking’. Damn right I am sexist. It doesn’t matter to me if women get paid as much as men, get jobs traditionally male, and shower in the men’s locker room."

"They can jolly well stay away from wargaming in droves for all I care. I’ve seen many a good wargame and wargamer spoiled thanks to the fair sex. I’ll detail that if anyone wishes.”


So just to summarize here, Gygax wrote misogyny into the D&D rules. When this was raised with him as an issue at the time, his response was to offer to put rules on rape and sex slavery into D&D.

The outrage online directed at Peterson and Tondro is not only entirely misplaced and disproportional, and perhaps even dishonest in certain cases...

Part 2: D&D Co-Creator Gary Gygax was Sexist. Talking About it is Key to Preserving his Legacy....it is also directly harming the legacies of Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz and the entire first generation of genius game designers our online army of outraged grognards purport to defend.

How? Let me show you.The D&D player base is getting more diverse in every measurable way, including age, gender, sexual orientation, and race. To cite a few statistics, 81% of D&D players are Millenials or Gen Z, and 39% are women. This diversity is incredible, and not because the diversity is some blessed goal unto itself. Rather, the increasing diversity of D&D proves the vigor of the TTRPG medium. Like Japanese rap music or Soviet science fiction, the transportation of a medium across cultures, nations, and genders proves that it is an important method for exploring the human condition. And while TTRPGs are a game, they are also clearly an important method for exploring the human condition. The fact the TTRPG fanbase is no longer solely middle-aged Midwestern cis men of middle European descent...

...the fact that non-binary blerds and Indigenous trans women and fat Polish-American geeks like me and people from every bed of the human vegetable garden ...

find meaning in a game created by two white guys from the Midwest is proof that Gygax and Arneson were geniuses who heaved human civilization forward, even if only by a few feet.

So, as a community, how do we deal with the ugly prejudices of our hobby’s co-creator who also baked them into the game we love? We could pretend there is no problem at all, and say that anyone who mentions the problem is a liar. There is no misogyny to see. There is no **** and there is no stink, and anyone who says there is naughty word on your sneakers is lying and is just trying to embarrass you.

I wonder how that will go? Will all these new D&D fans decide that maybe D&D isn’t for them? They know the stink of misogyny, just like they know **** when they smell it. To say it isn’t there is an insult to their intelligence. If they left the hobby over this, it would leave our community smaller, poorer, and suggest that the great work of Gygax, Arneson, Kuntz, and the other early luminaries on D&D was perhaps not so great after all…

We could take the route of Disney and Song of the South. Wizards could remove all the PDFs of early D&D from DriveThruRPG. They could refuse to ever reprint this material again. Hide it. Bury it. Erase it all with copyright law and lawyers. Yet no matter how deeply you bury the past, it always tends to come back up to the surface again. Heck, there are whole podcast series about that. And what will all these new D&D fans think when they realize that a corporation tried to hide its own mistakes from them?

Again, maybe they decide D&D isn’t the game for them. Or maybe when someone tells you there is **** on your shoe, you say thanks, clean it off, and move on.

We honor the old books, but when they tell a reader they are a lesser human being, we should acknowledge that is not the D&D of 2024. Something like...

“Hey reader, we see you in all your wondrous multiplicity of possibility, and if we were publishing this today, it wouldn’t contain messages and themes telling some of you that you are less than others. So we just want to warn you. That stuff’s in there.”

Y’know, something like that legacy content warning they put on all those old PDFs on DriveThruRPG. And when we see something bigoted in old D&D, we talk about it. It lets the new, broad, and deep tribe of D&D know that we do not want bigotry in D&D today. Talking about it welcomes the entire human family into the hobby.To do anything less is to damn D&D to darkness. It hobbles its growth, gates its community, denies the world the joy of the game, and denies its creators their due. D&D’s creators were visionary game designers. They were also people, and people are kinda ****** up. So a necessary step in making D&D the sort of cultural pillar that it deserves to be is to name its bigotries and prejudices when you see them. Failure to do so hurts the game by shrinking our community and therefore shrinking the legacy of its creators.

Appendix 1: Yeah, I know Chaos isn’t the same as Evil in OD&D.

But I would also point out as nerdily as possible that on pg. 9 of Book 1 of OD&D, under “Character Alignment, Including Various Monsters and Creatures,” Evil High Priests are included under the “Chaos” heading, along with the undead. So I would put to you that Gygax did see a relationship between Evil and Chaos at the time.

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Look, folks, we know how a conversation like this goes on the internet. Because, internet. Read the rules you agreed to before replying. The banhammer will be used on those who don't do what they agreed to.
 

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JohnRTroy

Adventurer
Perhaps all responses to new posts trying to defend Gygax should be copy-pasted?

Logical Result: Accept it as what it is (a true historical fact, of interest to some but maybe not you), ensure your knickers aren't twisted, and get on with enjoying your gaming.

Illogical Results: a) Disagree that Gygax is sexist despite overwhelming evidence and still be personally aggrieved. b) Actually agree that he is, but still be determined to "win an argument on the internet", insistent on splitting hairs beyond the molecular level/moving goalposts to a neighbouring continent/picking that nit until the scalp bleeds profusely.
That's not what I see going on in this thread.

I don't think people are disputing the actual items Gary said, I see people disagreeing over how impactful this is on Gary's legacy and whether or not his attitudes are part of the past culture or not.

  • Some people feel it's a huge deal, and some have made the case that it resulted in a flawed D&D that was less inclusive, etc. Some have called it an "important topic"
  • Some feel it was part of a flawed past culture, or that others are making a bigger deal of the issues, or pushing back on the people seeing this as a deeper systemic problem, etc.
The fact that you are framing it as "illogical" and statements that "knickers aren't twisted", seems to imply that the other side is wrong for having their opinion. I see more people upset on the first bullet point, the ones who want to be critical of Gygax in this thread, or critical of anybody who even presents the least bit of criticism the the other way. I see a few of the arguments from the second bullet point being calm and reasonable, with those with the first viewpoint getting mad that people even have those opinions. Or asking for sidebar discussions to stop because it's distracting from the subject of the thread.

It takes two sides to argue, somebody has to have the last word before the thread dies. Do you want the thread to stop? Or do you just want to shut down any posts that disagree with your viewpoint? If its the former, then why do you care if the other side has the last word.

The key thing is opinions on Gary Gygax will remain that. Opinions. You can personally pass judgement, but you can't affect what other people think. And if you get angry or upset that people in a debate thread don't agree with you, that's really your problem.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Doesn't matter. Gygax was still a sexist.



Doesn't matter. Gygax was still a sexist.



Which doesn't matter. Because he was still a sexist.



We aren't saying that there was a difference in pushback. But how other people reacted at the time doesn't determine whether or not what he was saying and doing was sexist.

Not Saying he wasn't but people are pushing a line that's completely inaccurate.

He wasn't the only one who was saying things lije tgat in public without fear of getting canceled. See the Sean Connery stuff.

Not saying it's right or wrong but times were different. You can look at other legacy media to see what was accepted or what you could get away with.

Gary's comments here in 2005 mods didn't censure him.

What you could say and get away without push back or no consequences even if there was pushback is very different.

At least in mainstream TV, books etc. Now we have unregulated youtube for example but we can't really compare that to the 1980s there's no equivalent.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
So it wasn't acceptable back then but it was just something you saw from time to time?

Not like today when... it is something you just see from time to time on the news....

How long do you think it would take for me to find a currently famous person who has said horrible sexist stuff since 2016 and that still has a career and wealth? And if I could find that.... it still would mean Gygax was sexist, so it doesn't actually matter.

Counter example is its not hard to find examples of people with ruined careers. Back then it was a lot harder to get canceled. Pee Wee Herman actor comes to mind.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
“It was wrong then and it’s wrong now.” - Wizards of the Coast official statement on older products that contained sexist and racist tropes.

Also revisionist. If it was that wrong then it wouldn't be made or be that successful. This applies to all sorts of legacy media.
. WotC can claim whatever they like.

It's also a strawman because I wasn't claiming it's right. More you could make product like that for a general audience and be successful.

These days you have to market it to chuds and commercial products for them outside of talking heads tend to fail (AR 15s being a notable exception).

You're arguing morality I'm arguing what was commercially and what you could get away with in pop culture of the time.

Gary's last comments that we know of were 2005 right here. He got away with posting those comments and they were contemporary with things like peak South Park, Family Guy. Movies like American Pie and various other raunchy comedies.
 

Steampunkette

A5e 3rd Party Publisher!
Supporter
Counter example is its not hard to find examples of people with ruined careers. Back then it was a lot harder to get canceled. Pee Wee Herman actor comes to mind.
Name someone with a ruined career. I'll start. Kevin Spacey.

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... Well, geeze. I guess it wasn't quite so ruined in 2018 when he was accused of molesting a 14 year old at 26.

How about Dave Chappelle? Surely his career is... oh.
1721514638509.png


How about Roseanne? Maybe it'll stick on the woman...
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6 years off the air... right?
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Oh. Nope. 4 years off the air. My mistake.
Also revisionist. If it was that wrong then it wouldn't be made or be that successful. This applies to all sorts of legacy media.
. WotC can claim whatever they like.

It's also a strawman because I wasn't claiming it's right. More you could make product like that for a general audience and be successful.

These days you have to market it to chuds and commercial products for them outside of talking heads tend to fail (AR 15s being a notable exception).

You're arguing morality I'm arguing what was cimnercuslky viable and what you could get away with in pop culture of the time.

Gary's last comments that we know of were 2005 right here. He got away with posting those comments and they were contemporary with things like peak South Park, Family Guy. Movies like American Pie and various other raunchy comedies.
Your_Highness_Poster.jpg
2011
images
2012
220px-This-is-the-End-Film-Poster.jpg
2013
MV5BMjkxOTk1MzY4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwODQzOTU5ODE@._V1_.jpg
2016

MV5BOTdlMzdmNDAtYTIyNi00ZWZiLWE3ZDYtOTg2YzE3NDRkNTYwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQ4NjA3Mw@@._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg
2020

Anyway. You get the idea. Raunchy Comedy films are still big enough business or pruriently enough amusing that people keep making them and people keep watching them.

That's never changed.

And while the latest American Pie didn't get the fanfare of the first one, Sausage Party was advertised fairly heavily in front of PG13+ films, online trailers, and in posters and standees in public places.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Name someone with a ruined career. I'll start. Kevin Spacey.

View attachment 373448

... Well, geeze. I guess it wasn't quite so ruined in 2018 when he was accused of molesting a 14 year old at 26.

How about Dave Chappelle? Surely his career is... oh.
View attachment 373449

How about Roseanne? Maybe it'll stick on the woman...
View attachment 3734506 years off the air... right?
View attachment 373451Oh. Nope. 4 years off the air. My mistake.

Your_Highness_Poster.jpg
2011
images
2012
220px-This-is-the-End-Film-Poster.jpg
2013
MV5BMjkxOTk1MzY4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwODQzOTU5ODE@._V1_.jpg
2016

MV5BOTdlMzdmNDAtYTIyNi00ZWZiLWE3ZDYtOTg2YzE3NDRkNTYwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQ4NjA3Mw@@._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg
2020

Anyway. You get the idea. Raunchy Comedy films are still big enough business or pruriently enough amusing that people keep making them and people keep watching them.

That's never changed.

And while the latest American Pie didn't get the fanfare of the first one, Sausage Party was advertised fairly heavily in front of PG13+ films, online trailers, and in posters and standees in public places.

Gina Carano
Amber heard
Johnny Dep
Danny Masterton
Weinstein
Epstein
Jonathon Majors

Off the top of my head.

It's also what's depicted in thise comedies has changed. There's no modern revenge of the nerds equivalent.
 


Vaalingrade

Legend
Gina Carano
Immediately got a movie.
Amber heard
Johnny Dep
Embarrassed themselves in court not the same thing we're talking about.
Danny Masterton
I have no idea who this is.
Weinstein
Literally committed crimes.
Literally committed crimes and DIED.
Jonathon Majors
Didn't turn to the grift, actually took his medicine
 


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