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D&D Insider Character Builder Open Beta live

This is junk. I acts just like an MMO character creator, and visualizer and linking it to Game Table will make it even more so.

Have you played many MMOs? I'm thinking you haven't, as most MMOs don't have a character creation screen apart from selecting race/class/appearance.

The only 'MMO' character generator I've seen like it is the chargen GUI used by Gemstone III, a text based MUD that's over a decade old.
 

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Are you trying to tell me no MMO uses things like a set of scores, and abilities you can pick from? Have you played many MMos yourself?

Are the ones you play all the orcs have the same strength as each other that can never be improved? Do your items have little to no impact on the amount of daamge that can be done because you are an orc?
 


Are you trying to tell me no MMO uses things like a set of scores, and abilities you can pick from? Have you played many MMos yourself?

Are the ones you play all the orcs have the same strength as each other that can never be improved? Do your items have little to no impact on the amount of daamge that can be done because you are an orc?

???

How does MMOs having characteristics and inventory management indicate that the D&D Character Builder looks like an MMO Chargen. Those are completely unrelated ideas. If your argument is 'RPGs and MMOs both have ability scores, abilities/powers and items of varying power levels', well, yeah, obviously. But then you might as well be telling me the Pope is Catholic, as well. That has nothing to do with the appearance/function of the Character Builder versus MMO chargen. Advancement of a character in an MMO != Character Builder.

Also, for the record, MMOs I've played:

Gemstone III, Dragonrealms (The first two are paid MUDs, but had playerbases in the thousands in the late 90s), Neverwinter Nights (on AOL), Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Phantasy Star Online, Ragnarok Online, Lineage 2, Guild Wars (More of a quasi-Diablo clone IMO), World of Warcraft (Through Burning Crusade), Silkroad, Age of Conan, Perfect World Online.

Pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with their trappings.
 

???

How does MMOs having characteristics and inventory management indicate that the D&D Character Builder looks like an MMO Chargen. Those are completely unrelated ideas. If your argument is 'RPGs and MMOs both have ability scores, abilities/powers and items of varying power levels', well, yeah, obviously. But then you might as well be telling me the Pope is Catholic, as well. That has nothing to do with the appearance/function of the Character Builder versus MMO chargen. Advancement of a character in an MMO != Character Builder.

Also, for the record, MMOs I've played:

Gemstone III, Dragonrealms (The first two are paid MUDs, but had playerbases in the thousands in the late 90s), Neverwinter Nights (on AOL), Ultima Online, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, Phantasy Star Online, Ragnarok Online, Lineage 2, Guild Wars (More of a quasi-Diablo clone IMO), World of Warcraft (Through Burning Crusade), Silkroad, Age of Conan, Perfect World Online.

Pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with their trappings.
The closest the character generator comes to in the few CRPGs and MMORPGs I know is the Never Winter Nights character creation process. But whereas the NWN system is incredibly inflexible and only allows me to go step by step, level by level, the 4E Character Generator allows me to freely pick what I want to do, when I want it to do. Sure, it also has the "Wizard" feel of going through step by step, but you can bypass that. And it still tracks for me which steps I haven't done yet, announcing whether I've feats or powers to select.

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I wonder how the generator handles the default retraining of powers at certain levels. Unfortunately, this only happens in Paragon Tier and upwards, not in the first 3 levels.
 

I wonder how the generator handles the default retraining of powers at certain levels. Unfortunately, this only happens in Paragon Tier and upwards, not in the first 3 levels.

Exactly. These things need to be beta tested as well so the core material is ready and the extra stuff from splatbooks can be worked into the system later.

@MMOs:
Here is the proposed method of the DDI tools starting with the character generator.

You stat up your character with the things you want like Race, Class, etc; then you move to the visualizer. Once you have your character created and your visualized set up you them move into the game, aka lobby, ot the actual table in which you will play with your character, just like the server connects your character in an MMO.

The character builder however does not need this connection as not everyone will be using the Game Table, but that was and is what it is being developed for and as a single package.

All the tools were supposed to be integrated and thus why you have some really silly requirements such as Direct X for the character builder.

How much visuals and animation does the CB really do that requires Direct X?

I have seen stronger tax applications that did not require Direct X, and for database use this very forum seems to do a pretty good job, and doesn't need Direct X or even Windows.

If you look at such a narrow view of the CB and what it is versus what it is a part of and meant to be only a part of then you cannot see the connection to starting a character in an MMO.. When you look at the larger picture then you see that it is the same step for creating a character in an MMO as the next step will take into account what items you have that you will be able to pick from the CG modeler to "suit up" your graphics to comply with your character stats.

How many MMos have anyone here played that first go into making the visual look pretty before any stat work is done?

Anyway the CB could me much better if it wasn't built to be interdependent on the other tools and just allowed for saving to a database and let the other tools, if used, pull from that database rather than what will probably be close to OLE data that is passed directly form one to another. Odds are it will use the saved data locally and pull it into the other apps which taxes the client machine more and the sever less.

Either way it is made to share data so that it can be changed during use on the Game Table. Overhead those wanting a chargen and not wanting the rest just don't need. Thus why saving to an external database would solve both issues. The Game table could pull from WotC servers for the subscribers that are paying for the service, and those lapsed subscriptions can still use the CB without it trying to connect to something else and work solely offline.

Sometimes people just cannot see the forest for the trees though.
 

How many MMos have anyone here played that first go into making the visual look pretty before any stat work is done?

I haven't played a lot of massive multiplayer online game, just EQ, DAoC and WoW.

All three of those have no stat work. You pick race and class, chose how you will look, and press "Start". Once you are in the world, you can see your stats, not before.
 



Sorry, needless sarcastic remarks removed, and now for something more constructive:

So far the Character generator is well abovemy expectations. I am still playing around with the customisation options on the character sheet. Seriously awesome. I like that it is usable offline, I am assuming the full version will also be a local install with a monthly patch for new material and errata.

Phaezen
 
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