D&D Insider: Losing your toys

[Mark]

Why are you angry (. . .)?

Who's angry?

 

[evilbob]

But, if WotC decides to stop part or all of the D&D Insider service, I don't think they will "screw" their subscribers.

I agree with Dire Bare on this one: I think Irda Ranger has a very valid concern and I agree that we're basically paying for the promise of something (as opposed to something itself), which isn't a very good business model from the consumer's end. However, I also have enough faith in the faceless, corporate being that is WotC to not completely screw their customer base over: if nothing else, because it's bad PR and bad for the bottom line. Yes, one day 4.0 will be some old thing, but by that time they have very little to lose by distributing things freely, too. At the very least, I can see things working like many have said the CB works now: you can continue to use it but it will just never be updated.

Overall, I think this is a valid concern but I'm not entirely worried because I think corporate greed also works to keep them accountable.

 

[Halivar]

Who's angry?

Ok, not angry. Wrong word. Disapproving?

 

[Mark]

Ok, not angry. Wrong word. Disapproving?

Look, Halivar. You should probably stop trying to characterize my attitude and simply answer my post questions or ignore them. I'm not trying to vilify any persons or companies. I'm not denegrating your chosen profession or casting aspersions on anyone's character for trying to create one type of business model or another. I'm just trying to discern if there is a way to bow out of the subcription and maintain what has been purchased. There's really no need for you to try and marginalize anyone over that discussion. I dislike that you chose to approach a discussion with me in that manner and continue to persue it, so I suggest you refrain from that tack in the future. If you do not know the answers to the questions, or would rather not discuss them, simply ignore the posts that have to do with that aspect of this thread.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

So you receive the software in its current form and should be able to use that software at that level forever, but the only way to put the software on a new computer if you allow your subscription to lapse is by using a disc image? So the software itself is designed to thwart this unless the disc image precaution is taken?

Yes to your first question: That or you pay for a one month access to DDI (let's call it "installation fee" ), re-install and update the whole stuff.

No to your second question: The software is designed to let you access a paid-for service. You may opt out of this service and running the risk of losing your data your recieved as part of this service.

"Thwarting" sounds a lot like "the evil Wizards actively try to enforce people to remain subscribers or else..." But it's just a paid service you can use even after you subscription has expired. Try that with WoW!

Oh, let's not make this personal, as I am not actually discussing my own situation but rather trying to understand the situation objectively. I can envision, for instance, someone deciding they only want to play the game with the level of rules that are out to this point, or perhaps to the point achieved just after the PH2 is out, thus effectively wishing to drop off of the subscription grid(both for the DDI and the print rules) but being guaranteed all of the toys they are accustomed to using still function as purchased. Hence the above questions.

Sorry Mark, it was not my intent to put this on a personal level. It's rather that I'm a bit fed up with this argument that your DDI subscription/access buys you something in the traditional sense. This is not the case.

It buys you a service. It's the idea of buying a service which some people seem to have problems with. And this is something I frankly don't understand. Last time I rode a bus in my hometown, the bus ticket didn't buy me the bus, but maybe that's different in the US.

The group you envision has two options within the DDI model:

1. They could use the CB as usual, making backups and disk images to ensure that CB survives computer break-downs and changes.
   
2. They could use the CB as usual, buying a one onth subscription to DDI if their hardware fails them or they change to a new computer. I don't know how frequent such a situation turns up for these people, so they might decide that this solution is too expensive for them. They can even define a campaign to limit the data shown in their new installation to what was formerly accessible to them.

For me, it sounds like a decent offer, although I intend to maintain my subscription anyway. Perhaps my point of view can be made understandable by my "history" with computer aided character building:

Shortly after 3e premiered I discovered PCGen, which had lots of data files for most of WotC's D&D books. When this changed, one had to enter ones own data for all the new, shiny books. For a lazy guy like me, this was not cool, but we made do until we wanted to switch to Eberron. Many Eberron- things were not supported by the old version of PCGen I was running, so it was either re-entering all the data (argh!) or running with compromises.

It was than that I found Codemonkey Publishing, who offered data sets for PCGen and etools. For reasons I can not precisely recall, I decided to go the etools route and bought quite some datasets. When the CMP-license for using WotC data was not extended, I was in a situation comparable to the one described in this very thread: I had paid money for the stuff I had to make sure that all the data and software patches were securely saved and backuped. If something would happen to my computer and one backuped file would be damaged, I'd have irrevocably lost the data and my investment.

The difference ist that I pay much less for the DDI subscription than I would have to have paid for comparable features under etools or PCGen. Oh, and I have to wait four weeks for the incorporation of new data, not four months or years...

All in all, even if WotC decides to stop the service and throw CB in the garbage can, I've made a very favorable deal: I gladly pay for a great service.

 

[Halivar]

Whoah! Sorry.

Ignore the characterization and what-not. I'm trying to point out that folks are hold WotC to a different level of accountability than they would other software companies, and I think that's unfair.

PS: I reread your questions, and they're pretty objective. I apologize if I've unfairly imputed to you views you don't have. I initially read them as rhetorical.

To answer your questions: yes, and no. "No" to the second because I don't think they're trying to intentionally "thwart" anything. If anything, they left a huge gaping hole for people to continue reaping the benefits of past DDI subscriptions. Note, for instance, that they don't even have rudimentary DRM on the CB to require subscription. That's only in the update process.

PPS: If I were a money-grubbing bastard (and, on some days, I am), I'd lock down the CB with a time-bomb. Mandatory sync with the home server once per subscription period to maintain enforcement and continue the revenue stream. But first, I would have it be free for continual use during an extensive beta... period.... oh. I see.

 

[Rechan]

Does it bother anyone else that if you stop paying for cable, that you no longer can watch channels on TV?

 

[avin]

I like this model a lot, for CB.

Compendium should work like this...

 

[Ktulu]

Does it bother anyone else that if you stop paying for cable, that you no longer can watch channels on TV?

QFT.

Yes, it does. I was always more irritated wift losing my insurance benefits if I stopped paying, too.

All jokey aside, I think it's a valid concern that we'd lose access to stuff. RPG's have never had a real subscription system in the past. You buy the book and it's yours for life.

What we haven't grown accustomed to, yet, is that so long as you're playing the game, you might as well have the subscription. You can surely play without it, but the advantage vs cost is quite reasonable.

It's like having an Xbox & some online only games and then not paying the XBL subscription. Not something you're used to having to do with game systems.

 

[Mark]

To both of you, would "disallow" be a less provocative word than "thwart?" It's all I meant by its use, afterall, so I am fine if it becomes the verbal proxy.

So, thanks for following up, to you both. I'm not all that used to much beyond anti-virus software (in that vein), and I had been under the impression (though I do not risk it) that anti-virus software continued to function at the level at which it had been last updated for as long as I would desire. I can understand software that is fully server-side being something that can be disallowed post-subscription but it seems off that something I install on my own computer can cease to function or not be allowed to be reinstalled if it needs to be post subscription.


But the disc image approach might be workable. Would that be a violation of the license, though?