D&D is an Adult Game?

[Hussar]

Really?

In two separate threads right now I've seen claims that older versions of D&D were marketed as adult games, not as games for teens. My question is, when has D&D ever been anything but a game for teens?

I mean, the Basic/Expert sets were for 10 or older. AD&D was sold on the back of comic books back when comics sold for a quarter (or so) and were pretty much the sole domain of teens. Or, a Saturday morning cartoon, back before cable cartoon networks and before watching Saturday morning cartoons was something anyone other than teens did.

Every fiction line for D&D in any edition has been pretty solidly Young Adult fiction.

Every setting has buried things like alcohol, drugs, sex or pretty much anything else that you might find in an adult themed game.

I can't think of a single module that isn't PG, maybe PG-13 at the absolute outside.

I can't think of a single D&D video game that would rate an adult ESRB rating.

So, exactly when was D&D marketed to the 20+ crowd? When has D&D ever been an adult game?

 

[Nagol]

Men and Magic had a suggested age of 12+


1e was aimed at an adult audience while Basic was aimed at a younger audience

1E Player's Handbook page 7 under "The Game"

"The game is ideally for three or more adult players"

 

[Raven Crowking]

Hussar,

This is a false dichotomy. An adult game can be marketted to teens. A game for teens can be marketted to adults. A game can be intended for both teens and adults.

Certainly, the textual complexity of AD&D 1e was not intended for young readers, and one hopes that both succubus illustrations (DMG & MM) as well as the "Random Prostitute" tables (DMG) and gambling (DMG) were not intended to hook teens (although, as a teen, I truly enjoyed the MM picture!). Certainly, in the DMG, Gygax wrote as though to someone with both an eclectic vocabulary and a reasonable historical background, who was ready to put real work into building a campaign milieu.

Was the article about polearms in UA intended for teens? Were the made up weapons in 3e? (The gnome pick that skewers your forearm when you use it, for example?) I think that these things are marketted to a very different crowd!

The density of 2e's options were such that, I believe, the designers knew that they were selling to adults as well as to teens. And some of the choices made with 2e were a direct result of backlash from teenage involvement with 1e (changes to demons and devils, for example).

Saying that something is for ages 10+ doesn't mean that there is no cutoff market (I mean, a lot of little kids toys say 3+, with the assumption that the consumer will realize that his 15-year-old doesn't want stacking rings for her birthday). In the case of D&D, though, particularly TSR-D&D, I take that 10+ to mean "ages 10 until you drop".

I do think that WotC is more market-savvy than TSR was, and has marketted more strongly toward teens due to their disposable income. Heck, it's a smart thing to do. Who knows? If TSR had pushed the teen element more, there might still be a TSR.



RC

 

[Ariosto]

as adult games, not as games for teens

I have not seen that dichotomy suggested here -- but I recall seeing only one reference here to the first ("adult") part.

The 1978 (J.E. Holmes, editor) edition of Dungeons & Dragons had:
THE ORIGINAL
ADULT FANTASY
ROLE-PLAYING GAME
FOR 3 OR MORE PLAYERS

The covers of the 1981 (Basic and Expert volumes) edition bill it as:

The Original Fantasy
Role Playing Game
For 3 or More Adults,
Ages 10 and Up


The later (Easley cover) AD&D PHB read:
"It is the ideal vehicle of imagination for intermediate through advanced players, ages 10 and up."

 

[Perram]

There is a big difference between what a product would rate as appropriate for and who their target audience would be. A video game, for example, doesn't have to earn an AO from the ESRB to be meant for adults, and other movies besides porn are certainly intended for older audiences.

Ratings on boxes (for ages 10+) have to due with content and safety, not a target audience or who would actually enjoy the product.

Adults have always been one of the target audiences for D&D, both college students or working adults. I don't think that they were the ONLY target, but certainly a decently sized portion of the market, if not a majority.

 

[Ariosto]

I suspect that it was mainly meant, like a classic forebear, as "a Game for Boys from twelve years of age to one hundred and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl who likes boys' games and books".

The advertisements featuring Ms. Elise Gygax were probably aimed at Boys a bit older than 12 and a bit younger than 150.

 

[jaerdaph]

If my mother had seen the 1e AD&D Monster Manual succubus, she would have taken the book away from me an burned it!

 

[maddman75]

It doesn't matter. I'm a geek, so I love anything that is meant to appeal to 15 year old boys. Pirates, swordfights, dragons, ninjas, and zombies - all awesome.

 

[Ariosto]

 

[Desdichado]

Really?

In two separate threads right now I've seen claims that older versions of D&D were marketed as adult games, not as games for teens. My question is, when has D&D ever been anything but a game for teens?

I mean, the Basic/Expert sets were for 10 or older. AD&D was sold on the back of comic books back when comics sold for a quarter (or so) and were pretty much the sole domain of teens. Or, a Saturday morning cartoon, back before cable cartoon networks and before watching Saturday morning cartoons was something anyone other than teens did.

Every fiction line for D&D in any edition has been pretty solidly Young Adult fiction.

Every setting has buried things like alcohol, drugs, sex or pretty much anything else that you might find in an adult themed game.

I can't think of a single module that isn't PG, maybe PG-13 at the absolute outside.

I can't think of a single D&D video game that would rate an adult ESRB rating.

So, exactly when was D&D marketed to the 20+ crowd? When has D&D ever been an adult game?

Your whole post reeks of bizarreness to me. D&D was popular with teens, but when was it ever marketted as a game for teens? None of the fiction is YA fiction, except for one or two unusual Dragonlance series that I only recently discovered at the library while looking for a book for my son to read. It's all modern, "adult" fantasy. All of it. And Saturday morning cartoons were for teens? No, they were clearly for much younger kids than that.

And that idea that without drugs and sex, a product doesn't appeal to adults is probably the most bizarre implication of your post. Seriously, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.