"D&D is evil. I have seen it from the inside."

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I wont criticize his religion, But I will criticize Jack Chick himself as the ultimate in hypocrisy.

If you want to see for yourself, read "Where's Rabbi Waxman", where the theme is "All Jews follow false teachings and go to hell." Then fire up "Love the Jewish People" for a story that is the polar opposite. The fact is, hes simply running a publishing buisness selling love or hate (you pick) packaged as religion.

PS: I love in the comics when he references...HIMSELF...as a factual basis.
 

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Steverooo said:
For the rest of this Off-Topic thread, I would like to address the Double Standard of ENWorld (and yes, there is one). Chick-Bashing (as opposed to Chick's Arguement-Bashing) is not only common, but En Vogue, here, as well as among gamers, in general. Fundamentalist-Christian-Bashing is about as popular.

As one ENWorlder so eloquently put it a while back: "I take more flak from my fellow gamers for being a Christian than my fellow Christians for being a gamer."
 

Steverooo said:
No, Quas, I have no information on the two Former T$R employess who Schnoebelen claims came to visit himself and his wife, nor the former employee who appeared on the 700 Club (which, I believe, is no more -- the 700 Club, that is)! Sorry.

Uh, what? The 700 Club is alive and well. Their website, if you care:

http://www.cbn.com

www.700club.com will also get you there.

I snipped the rest of your post in which you go on a high-handed rant about how people don't fact-check before making statements about Chick et al, didn't seem appropriate to respond to it here.
 
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Keeper of Secrets said:
Come to think of it, there is a better argument for 'D&D will prevent your kids from getting dates' than it will getting them hooked up with Satan.
There you go. We should be promoting D&D as an "abstinance aid and support group".
 

Well I have a number of opinions on this subject. I actually was accepted to a Christian University and a Seminary. I wanted to be a youth minister back in the day. When they found out that I drank (socially not a drunk), was tatooed, and played d&d I had some certain responsibilities at a church. I could understand their issues with the drinking, but their biggest beef was that I played d&d so I was demoted.

Anyway onto my original thought, has their ever been a debate or a public approach from our side. Such as a rep from TSR or WOTC with one of these Fundamentalists? I wonder how long it would stay civil? Could it be arranged? This would be interesting.

I know one of the guys churches that I work with were actually thinking about boycotting Gen-Con, and he wondered if I would come and speak to them about it, though there project self destructed before we could arrange a meeting.

The Seraph of Earth and Stone
 

Steverooo said:
Now, about those three TSR employees (or former employees)?

I found the reference I was looking for - it was in "The Truth: On Sale Now!" by Jeff Freeman:

http://www.ntskeptics.org/1995/1995may/may1995.htm

Pat Robertson runs an anti-game commercial during The 700 Club's broadcast nearly every day. Respondents are offered a misinformative flyer that quotes Pat Pulling of BADD as a bona fide "expert." It references a hoax that occurred when The 700 Club invited Paul Sanchez on their show under the pretense that he was a former employee of TSR Hobbies, Inc. The pamphlet suggests the game ditch the references to real-world mythology (which Pat Robertson finds "occultic") and use instead a fictitious "game mythology " (not mentioned is that this was done in 1989). The flyer outlines a couple cases of "D&D suicide" and "D&D murder." An accompanying tract addressing "The New Age," claims that playing D&D leads to demonic possession and "is a sin against God." Not only is it full of falsehoods, the text is nearly ten years old. When I wrote CBN and documented each untruth line by line, I received a thank you, the suggestion to pray for them and three months of junk-mail for other 700 Club projects.

Jeff doesn't cite a source for his claim that Sanchez' employment with TSR was a complete hoax, however. I'll check around some more and see if I can get something more tangible. Jeff's been hard to reach in the last few years, so it might take me a bit.

- Bill
 

Just found some more. From Frequently Asked Questions by Christians about Role-playing Games, by Lynette R. F. Cowper, M. Joseph Young, Paul Cardwell, and other members of the Christian Gamers Guild (http://www.geocities.com/christian_gamers_guild/chaplain/cfaq.html):

"Still, there is some truth to this story. The person in question was Gali Sanchez, presumably not the jazz percussionist of that name who has recorded with Santana. Sanchez appeared on The 700 Club in March of a yet undiscovered year (probably, but by no means certainly, 1989). He was only a freelancer (that is, someone who writes material he submits for publication by a company, and not an employee of any game company), but did work freelance for TSR (he had a scenario in Dragon Magazine #70, in 1983) and did the vampire books for the Chill system (from Mayfair games, not related to D&D).

As for whether Sanchez' research really happened, we don't know. There are at least some names and approximate dates, but not much more than the folkloric version. If anyone has any documented information, the Christian Gamers Guild (CGG) and the Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games (CAR-PGa) would appreciate hearing it.



Also, reading this last document reminded me of the biggest hole in the Schnoebelen story - at the time that he claims that the two mystery men appeared to him asking him to reality-check their game, D&D was already in the stores. Fact-checking is traditionally done BEFORE publication, not after.

- Bill
 


Dark Jezter said:
As one ENWorlder so eloquently put it a while back: "I take more flak from my fellow gamers for being a Christian than my fellow Christians for being a gamer."

The way I see it, the problem is that many Gamers are in a siege mentality against Christianity because it's a vicious cycle. One hates the other and it fuels reciprocity. Many years ago, some fundamentalist Christians falsely accused D&D of being Evil and Satanic, which lead to a lot of hostility towards gamers and gaming. Many of today's gamers were just getting interested in D&D in that era, and as they discovered a fun and harmless hobby, they were told by their parents, pastors and teachers that the hobby is satanic and evil and they aren't allowed to play it. The gamers knew that the game wasn't like that, so that just poured more alienation and resentment onto the natural alienation of adolescence and the teenage years, and gave it a form that would outlast that time. Now, you have gamers who have been hating Christianity because Christianity hates them (or so they seee it).

I mean, in my own life, I first got interested in D&D in Junior High, back in the early 90's (in Rural Kentucky). I had a friend loan me his D&D books, and I was just reading them in my room one day, when my father comes in. He sees me sitting there quietly reading Legends and Lore, with "Dungeons and Dragons" big on the cover. He's furious. Of course, a cursory glance at the book shows long listings of nonchristian belief systems (which under some fundamentalist lines of thought, are automatically satantic and evil). I'm told I'm going to Hell for reading those books, and they are sent back to my friend's house (with my dad asking that they be burned). I try and discuss the issue reasonably, but as far as my own father is concerned, the fact that he heard it at Church once and the Pastor said so was better proof than anything I could say. So I gave up on D&D for a few years. . .

Then I came to College and rediscovered D&D, and got some gaming friends and joined some games. I still went back to my old hometown and still attended Church (not the same Church we were attending at the first time I tried to play D&D, so it wasn't the same Pastor who railed against it). I spent much of my weekends volunteering at the church, helping them with their computer systems, doing routine office work, polishing and dusting, and so on. One afternoon, in discussion with the Pastor, he asked what I was doing that night. Well, I may have spent Saturday afternoons helping out at church, but Saturday nights I went to my D&D game. The Pastor went livid at the very mention of this. He couldn't believe that the young man who had been coming to this church for a few years, and had been helping him out around the church so often, was in his view, an evil satanic warlock who practiced the horrible "D&D" form of Satanism that is actually sold in stores. I was told by the Pastor in no uncertain terms to never play D&D again, and to bring all my D&D books to the church to be burned. When I tried to debate the subject, and politely tell him that my hobbies are my own, I was told in very blunt terms to not come back to that church, and that I wasn't welcome there until I'd quit D&D and "atoned for the sins of satanism".

I don't think my story is unique, and I personally do not hold any contempt for the religion as a whole, but I do dislike those who use their faith as a blanket excuse to condemn that which they already dislike, or those who make strong judgments without weighing the evidence and reasons themselves.

However, for all those gamers who have grown up with stories like these, there are going to be plenty who do hold some kind of grudge or intolerance towards Christianity. So they'll show it, and that just fuels the entire cycle. I wish I knew how to break the cycle.
 

In my previous gaming group, one of the players was a born-again Christian. He told me that the reason he plays D&D is to stay away from the drinking and drug scene that he used to be part of.
 

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