D&D is NOT Kobolds surviving Fireball

[AngryMojo]

The million dollar question then is what will the default assumption be.

I'd guess it's somewhere in the middle, assuming there's a default at all.

 

[prosfilaes]

"Minions" is both an english word, and a 4e game term. I don't really care that much if you like or not the 4e Minion, it's up to you. But minions (the english word) are part of D&D, since the begining of Chainmail. A kobold is, by definition, a minion.

Huh? In English, a minion is "a loyal servant of another, usually more powerful being" or from another dictionary "a servile or fawning dependent". Kobolds are not by definition minions; a lot of them may be on the top of the heap of their world. And minion, in English, has no conception that the person in question is a push-over; extremely high CR angels and demons may be minions of their respective gods.

 

[mkill]

This thread needs a haiku.

Fireball in the dark

Trail of smoldering corpses

Bat guano smell

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I have to mention that what the OP describes would break the fundamental physical laws of the universe. If we assume that Shroedingers Cat is actually a kobold, and that the deadly device inside of the box does not contain poison gas but a fireball, it means that Heisenbergs Uncertainty Principle is not working for kobolds because the kobold is dead regardless if the box is opened or not.

Which would mean that kobolds would open many possibilities in high-technology campaigns like FTL, time travel, the creation of unlimited energy from galactic background radiation etc. Kobold-centric industries would dominate the economies of nations, kobold farms would produce the poor masses needed for the quantum energy condensers. I imagine a situation like in ancient Sparta, where a constantly nervous minority watches over an enslaved majority that is the economic basis for a whole civilisation.

Kobolds also would be invaluable adventuring gear. If we assume that the quantum energy of one kobold is enough to fuel several devices, a hireling carrying a kobold harness could power heating devices, start campfires, create searing light using kobold electricity, produce a intense flame jet (improvised flamethrower?) etc. I guess a harness full of kobolds (perhaps one female and two males) would become standard adventuring equipment like the 10' pole. Every party would need its own kobold bearer, and i guess this could create even a new whole social class: kobold experts, invaluable for society because of their kobold-handling abilities. Kinda like the rise of technicians during early industrialisation.

In theory, 2 kobolds that are related (siblings would work best, i guess) could be used like the quantum entanglement communication device described in Mass Effect 2 and 3. Speaking into a surgically prepared opening, the quantum connection would allow instantaneous flow of information. This would make vast empires viable. Again, control of the kobold resource could be seen as THE basis of power for any kingdom. Raids against kobold farms, smuggling kobolds over mountain passes, destroying rival families' kobold supplies - lot's of jobs to be had for unscrupulous adventuring parties.

*twitch*

 

[triqui]

Huh? In English, a minion is "a loyal servant of another, usually more powerful being" or from another dictionary "a servile or fawning dependent". Kobolds are not by definition minions; a lot of them may be on the top of the heap of their world. And minion, in English, has no conception that the person in question is a push-over; extremely high CR angels and demons may be minions of their respective gods.

That's why Legionaire Devils are Minions in 4e despise being epic level

 

[Henry]

Huh? In English, a minion is "a loyal servant of another, usually more powerful being" or from another dictionary "a servile or fawning dependent". Kobolds are not by definition minions; a lot of them may be on the top of the heap of their world. And minion, in English, has no conception that the person in question is a push-over; extremely high CR angels and demons may be minions of their respective gods.

Perhaps the term "mook" is more appropriate; the term really first made an appearance that I know of in the Feng Shui RPG, to designate a threat that can easily be put down, but still represented a significant threat in large numbers. I guess "Minion" sounds more 'fantasy medieval' than "mook". I definitely think D&D needs to keep some kind of minion rule, though -- the two dozen green foes that the heroes plow through is a staple of cinema and high-fantasy literature.

 

[prosfilaes]

I definitely think D&D needs to keep some kind of minion rule, though -- the two dozen green foes that the heroes plow through is a staple of cinema and high-fantasy literature.

I don't see why. In the games of D&D I've played, we've never had a problem plowing through the two dozen green foes without a minion rule.

 

[pemerton]

I don't see why. In the games of D&D I've played, we've never had a problem plowing through the two dozen green foes without a minion rule.

It depends in part on the extent of scaling. In a game with steep scaling, like 4e, if the minions are to pose any threat to the PCs then there needs to be a rule to scale attacks and damge without scaling hit points.

It also depends in part on the ratio of hit points to damage. In a game where this ratio makes one-shot kills unlikely or impossible, then if minions are to be defeatable in a single blow there needs to be a rule to suspend the normal hit point determination procedure.

Even in AD&D, where scaling is less steep and damage to hit point ratios are more generous to attackers than they are in D&D, you will have a hard time setting up a "paladin in hell" scenario, in which a single PC carves through many, many devils (or demons, or mindflayers, or whatever the minion-du-jour is). About the best that is possible on this front is a high level ranger wielding a two-handed sword: 3d6 +level +stat + magic will certainly take down ogres in a single blow, and maybe even the odd unlucky hill giant.

An explicit minion rule makes it easy to stage these scenes, which have a distinctive story content and a distinctive mechanical feel as well.

 

[prosfilaes]

An explicit minion rule makes it easy to stage these scenes, which have a distinctive story content and a distinctive mechanical feel as well.

This is one of the game splits that D&D 5 will have to deal with. Such a rule is not Gygaxian realism, it's not simulationist. It's part of the 4E narrativism that turns off a lot of 3E players.

 

[Fifth Element]

This is one of the game splits that D&D 5 will have to deal with. Such a rule is not Gygaxian realism, it's not simulationist. It's part of the 4E narrativism that turns off a lot of 3E players.

Gygaxian...realism?