D&D General D&D: Literally Don't Understand This

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No they're not.

It's entirely on how they're presented.
No, you can add as horiffic things to Illithids as you want, you can make most horriffying artwork of them possible and it will never change the fact that the idea of a guy with whole squid for a head and a brain on 4 legs as a pet, who flies around on a giant nautiloid and takes orders from overgrown brain in a jar is fundamentally silly at its very core. You may as well argue Gorilla Grodd is not a silly villain. He is a telepathic Gorilla that hates bananas, he's gonna be silly no matter how many warcrimes he commits.
 

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No, you can add as horiffic things to Illithids as you want, you can make most horriffying artwork of them possible and it will never change the fact that the idea of a guy with whole squid for a head and a brain on 4 legs as a pet, who flies around on a giant nautiloid and takes orders from overgrown brain in a jar is fundamentally silly at its very core. You may as well argue Gorilla Grodd is not a silly villain. He is a telepathic Gorilla that hates bananas, he's gonna be silly no matter how many warcrimes he commits.
Nope.

Every single horror movie could be described in a way that makes them seem silly, it doesn't make them not scary.

Presentation matters more than concept.
 




It's probably my biggest complaint with Radiant Citadel. Each of the settings is as far as I can say, way too much a direct lift of its real world inspiration, down to artistic choice. "Lived experience" does not mean I want African American authors to recreate 19th century antebellum southern US, or have two of the adventures by Latin American authors to have the same Spanish-esque colonisation in their fictional lands backstories. We seem to be going from "Zeb Cook is not qualified to write a fantasy Asia" to "Chinese American author can only write about a fantasy China and it must look and feel like the China that his grandmother grew up in"
Now this post actually has a point and I think there is something interesting worth discussing here. It’s something I have been thinking about recently.

One of the main criticisms of the original Oriental Adventures product I’ve heard is how it merged China, Korea, and Japan together into a single setting. Contributing to the orientalist conflation of East Asian cultures that is/has been common in the Western world. Chult in Tomb of Annihilation is basically just Darkest Africa with the odd Native American culture mixed in (Goblin totem poles and Aztec Yuan-ti). I also dislike the common Mayincatec trope, where all the Aztec, Maya, and for some reason Inca are merged into a single exotic other (which is for whatever reason often applied to reptile-people like Yuan-Ti or Argonians).

People want to see themselves or people that look like them represented in media. There are a lot of cultures and ethnic groups that are underrepresented in fantasy media, and when they are it’s often a strange mishmash of a variety of disparate groups that the writer often clearly didn’t know much about. The number one important thing about representing a culture is respect. Not turning a real world group of people into a caricature (or worse, a dehumanized caricature like Orcs of Thar) or merged into a hodgepodge of exotic nonsense.

This leads to something like Radiant Citadel, where most of the settings functions as a fantasy stand-in for a real historical time and place. Which, you know, solves the conflation and treating the culture with respect issues. But it doesn’t really create a new setting or culture. Just medieval China, Japan, Korea, or Persia with monsters and magic. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. The Riders of Rohan are just Anglo-Saxons on horseback, and they’re cool. There are very few historical times and places that wouldn’t be interesting locations for a D&D adventure and other ethnicities should be able to use their history and culture for inspiration in D&D games/books. But I also don’t think it’s as interesting as making something new.

There’s an empire in my setting called Androkratoria. My two main inspirations for it were medieval Rome (aka Byzantium) and China, as they had quite a few interesting similarities (bureaucratic governments, silk production, special military technology kept secret by the state, eunuchs, conflict with steppe nomads, persecuting the Manichaeans, etc). I prefer mixing and matching aspects of different empires, cultures, and religions that have some interesting and often not-immediately-apparent similarities. I think this works well because, you know, there’s not really a historical basis for westerners conflating China and Greece/Rome in the same they’ve conflated China, Korea, Japan, and other Asian peoples/countries.

That’s just my preferred method. Mixing and matching aspects of cultures that wouldn’t be obviously connected or weren’t conflated historically. China and Byzantium. Tibet and the Inca. Cahokia, Scythians, and Egypt. Venice, Carthage, and Tenochtitlan.
 
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A floating ball with eyes and mouth that is a giant racist, people with squids for heads, literal boogeyman used to scare children, fairy tale spirit whose main role was to pee in your milk, brain on legs, bear with owl's head based off a child';s toy, antoher creature based off child's toy (had 2 rust monsters when I was 5), spell that makes big hand to slap you....all of these are fundamentally and inherently silly and it's immature to deny that.
No, it is immature to be afraid to take imaginary things seriously. This stuff is not inherently silly, it depends on presentation.

Neither was Ravenloft, blatantly inspired by Bram Stoker's Dracula, which was also set in XIX Century. And yet that was welcome. Sorry, but the ship about XIX century being too modern for D&D sailed decades ago.
Always bugged me. It sorta works as an isolated separate setting, but it is still weird how most of the tech is medieval with 19th century trappings.


You are basing your understanding of history out of vibes and "feels", not actual facts.
No I am not and that is a baseless accusation.

Don't defend strawman argument, that's just sad.
It was not a strawman, it is similar how you talked about glass and museums.

There is no setting free of anarchonisms. Majority of "medeival" fantasy won';t think twice of having a picture featuring XVII Century Italian mercernary wielding VII Century weapon against XIII Century British soldier armed with an XVIII Century weapon. Your idea of what is medeival and what is anachronistic is entierly based off vibes, not reality.
I would wince. And no, it is not based on vibes, I certainly would endeavour to have greater coherency than what you describe here. But of course even more obvious anachronisms are more noticeable.

But like I said in my fists post in this thread, it is not anachronisms per se, it is having coherent setting with coherent imagery and material culture. You can do intentional anachronism and blend different temporal and cultural influences together and have it to work. Like Trench Crusade that blends together WWI and medieval imagery to create an eerie but coherent look. But that means that you have to actually do the work, do that blending, and not just throw random stuff together either due ignorance or as a joke.
 

If it makes anyone feel any better, anachronisms aren't limited to D&D.
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Avatar the Last Airbender is definitely an influence on MANY of the current iteration of professional game designers, but I have absolutely no idea what the fantasy touchstone for the new generation of players is.
Dungeon Meshi and Frieren are two pretty popular D&D-esque anime. I imagine Kpop Demon Hunters will inspire many future games. Also Arcane, Game of Thrones/House of the Dragon, etc. I’ve used stuff from Brandon Sanderson’s books and the Locked Tomb series recently.
Is anybody under 30 playing Skyrim? I would be shocked if that's the fantasy touchstone of the new generation of gamers. I'd expect something more like, Genshin Impact or the Demon Hunters anime.
I’m under 30. I played (and periodically replay) Skyrim. Many other Gen Z gamers played it when they were teenagers and the fan base is still surprisingly active.
 

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