D&D General D&D, magic, and the mundane medieval

[Umbran]

We do have rules for creating magic items, they’re just optional and the specifics of designing new ones is very DM fiat powered.

Yes. That is my point. The thing doesn't fall out of the rules on its own - it must be explicitly introduced by the GM.

I am talking about what the rules hand us. You seem to be talking about what can be done by a GM with those rules. Different discussions.

 

[Alzrius]

I think that's a teleplay of the actual Lord of the Rings novels?

If I understand correctly, the book Pemerton & Lev's Lev are asking about is The Last Ring-bearer by Kiril Yeskov (which Benjamin Olson linked a wikipedia article) as a subversion of Tolkein's story, on the idea that "history is written by the winners." The book is supposed to be a sequel to LoTR, but told from the perspective of Mordorian survivors of the war. In it the elves are the bad guys, and the "orcs" (iirc a racist term used by the elves to refer to the people of Mordor) are struggling to excise magic from Middle Earth so that human industrialization can move civilization forward on their terms instead of as subjects of the decadent elves. Or something like that; I haven't read it 10ish years.

I'm not sure of the legal status of its English translation, so I won't link to it, but it's easy enough to find online.

I read that several years ago, and enjoyed it a lot. It's a very fun alternative take on Middle Earth, mostly for how it turns virtually everything Tolkien established on its head.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yes. That is my point. The thing doesn't fall out of the rules on its own - it must be explicitly introduced by the GM.

I am talking about what the rules hand us. You seem to be talking about what can be done by a GM with those rules. Different discussions.

You aren’t nit picking discussion of Spellcasting that comes from feats.

They’re both part of the rules.

 

[Umbran]

You aren’t nit picking discussion of Spellcasting that comes from feats.

They’re both part of the rules.

I will repeat, again - in analysis, there's a big difference between things that are already part of the RaW, and things the GM must add.

If that still fails to get the point across, I don't see a point in continuing this discussion with you.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I will repeat, again - in analysis, there's a big difference between things that are already part of the RaW, and things the GM must add.

If that still fails to get the point across, I don't see a point in continuing this discussion with you.

I understand your point. I just think you’re misrepresenting the nature of the rules on crafting magical items, and nitpicking my comment for no particularly consistent or reasonable purpose.

 

[Umbran]

I understand your point. I just think you’re misrepresenting the nature of the rules on crafting magical items, and nitpicking my comment for no particularly consistent or reasonable purpose.

Then you don't actually understand the point, and I'm done.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Anyway, since magic items either require a spellcaster that can cast the spell being put into an item, or a special ingredient that is a challenge to get, common and uncommon items don’t seem out of reach for a “Farm Mage”.

In fact, if you use the Xanathar’s guide alternate rules that require a rare ingredient, you can even use that as an excuse to have the local hedgemage send level 1 adventurers on a minor quest at the start of a campaign!

I think it is pretty clear, unless we assume a world with no optional rules allowed, that magic plows that just do the overturning 5 square feet of earth function of mold earth would be a better investment of time for a hedge mage.

 

[Baron Opal II]

As for the commonality of this, it is at most 2 cantrips (mold earth, shape water) and a couple of 1st level ritual spells (unseen servant, floating disk, alarm). Anyone who makes it 4th level in any class can have either the cantrips or the rituals via Magic Initiate:Wizard or Ritual Caster(wizard) feats. To be honest, just having Mold Earth is sufficient. (See below)

Okay, first- thanks for the reference! I've been looking for something beyond what I had, which was a Nova Scotian account of it taking a day for two men with wooden shovels to dig a grave in rocky soil. When I've looked before, all I could find was mechanized rates.

Mold earth: I thought that was a nice five cubic feet, not a five foot cube. That cantrip was written by someone who never held a shovel before. I think that's better than the AD&D 4th level spell dig. (Actually, it's an equal output. For as long as you want, since it's a cantrip. Ye gods.)

And anyone can learn it, just investing a feat at first level. Magic is common-place to the point of triviality. Wow. Interesting to think about, and extrapolate from, but I don't think I would want to run a game with these assumptions.

kigmatzomat, thanks very much for your posts!

 

[Maxperson]

but if it is a learned skill that 1 guy can teach how many apprentices? and they can teach how many more? even an Int 8 commoner CAN learn it in theory without caster stat checks'

edit: and even in game worlds with rare casters (and that is a rare setting today) I don't know any that has 1 per kingdom, heck most have more then 1 per city

In my game, and I run the Forgotten Realms, uses of magic are relatively rare.

A major temple might have 2-5 actual clerics in it, and only 1 of those would be equivalent to a double digit level. A mid size temple would have 1-3 clerics, and a minor temple 0-1. Most priests are going to be acolytes without magic.

Wizards have to be born with the talent(PCs are assumed to be members of that rare number), so a wizard cannot just grab Joe Shmoe off the street and teach him a cantrip.

"Bards" are mostly just minstrels and not the PC class.

And so on.

I like magic to be rare. Magic items are not common, but are usually very good when found. At 11th level the party in my current campaign has very few magic items, but among what they do have are 4 artifact level items. I much prefer a few powerful and desired items to 1635 items that each do something minor.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In my game, and I run the Forgotten Realms, uses of magic are relatively rare.

A major temple might have 2-5 actual clerics in it, and only 1 of those would be equivalent to a double digit level. A mid size temple would have 1-3 clerics, and a minor temple 0-1. Most priests are going to be acolytes without magic.

my homebrew settings (I hate the FR) has similar things, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 or 2 high level casters at most, and they are all named important in the setting. I was not suggesting everyone could be a 5th level wizard... but a 1st or 2nd

Wizards have to be born with the talent(PCs are assumed to be members of that rare number), so a wizard cannot just grab Joe Shmoe off the street and teach him a cantrip.

is this anywhere in the actual 5e game? I thought that sorcerers were born and wizards learned?