log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E D&D Magic the Gathering alternate magic system

CubicsRube

Adventurer
Supporter
Talking about M:tG has me thinking again about the disappointment I had with the Ravnica guide.

On a personal note, I enjoy 5e as it is, but as I've played a lot of it, I would absolutely love to try this with a completely different magic structure and set of spells.

It's been a long time for me playing it, but I absolutely loved the themes and strategies of Magic's colour system. I could see quite easily a setting of 5e that removed all other magic classes and included a White Mage, Blue Mage, Black Mage, Green Mage, and Red Mage.

What features would you give such a class? And what are some of the iconic spells you would give to these spell lists (and what level would you put them at?)
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Aelryinth

Explorer
That questions is just WAY TOO MUCH WORK.
I agree with the thought and the concept. Having the time to actually do it and work things out, strive for balance, etc, is something completely different.
It also turns Casters into a bunch of specialists instead of people who can pull out lots of different effects, destroying much of the flavor of the classes.
Changing class lists and restricting the Casters is a major change to the whole structure of the game. I'm not saying you can't do it, but it would be VERY different in flavor.
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
EDIT: my response was not directly related to the question of using Magic's system, and I frankly think I misread the OP's question and intent. I'm removing it to keep from cluttering the thread.
 
Last edited:

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
Talking about M:tG has me thinking again about the disappointment I had with the Ravnica guide.

On a personal note, I enjoy 5e as it is, but as I've played a lot of it, I would absolutely love to try this with a completely different magic structure and set of spells.

It's been a long time for me playing it, but I absolutely loved the themes and strategies of Magic's colour system. I could see quite easily a setting of 5e that removed all other magic classes and included a White Mage, Blue Mage, Black Mage, Green Mage, and Red Mage.

What features would you give such a class? And what are some of the iconic spells you would give to these spell lists (and what level would you put them at?)
I have put a fair bit of thought into such a thing. It would be a huge undertaking, but the end result could be really, really cool. What I would probably do is scrap the schools of magic and re-categorize spells by color. I’d also make lots of summon spells for each color, because summoning creatures is a big part of MtG. I’d also bring back classic Vancian spell preparation where each use of a spell has to be prepared separately, and I’d have you prepare 7 spells on a long rest. On a short rest you can prepare an additional spell, then if you have more than 7 spells prepared, chose one of them to “forget.” Use spell points instead of spell slots and call them mana.
 

Aelryinth

Explorer
My group and I (most of whom have been playing together on and off since 1995 or so) are seriously unimpressed with the 5e mage "specialists." The fact that all of them can learn all the same spells makes them all way too same-y for our tastes.

So the rule we implemented is what we call "true specialists." It's simple: only a specialist in a given school can cast spells of 3rd level or higher in that school. So if you wan to cast fireball, you better be an Evoker. Wanna cast dispel magic? Better be an Abjurer.

This approach does wonders to make the specialists actually feel like specialists, and is also great for worldbuilding. It also cuts down on the swiss army knife effect casters have on many campaigns; some challenges are still.much easier if you have a wizard, but no wizard is a one-size-fits-all solution to all problems.
The wizard is INTENDED to be a solution fixer, because there's only one or two Casters in the typical party.
On the metascale, sure, further narrowing the spells by School (or later by Element) restricts the Casters, but it changes the intended feel of Wizards a great deal.
This is further complicated by the five Colors of Magic.
White is basically Paladins and holy clerics.
Green is druids and ranger/barbarians and fey.
Red is earth and fire users... and more barbarians who love war.
Black is necromancers.
Blue is classical wizards without direct damage spells or necromancy, especially mental effects, magic toys, counter magic, and some control of air and water (which overlaps with Green).

So, an MOTG re-write effectively changes a LOT of classes. Thieves fall into Blue magic, for instance, and Fighters can be either White or Red depending on their Alignment.
Oh, right, Alignment has colors too!...

I would say that a full Specialist Re-write of the Casters and their Classes with spell restrictions would be a full sourcebook. I think the Spheres books from 3e (not sure about 5e) did something like that.
 

CubicsRube

Adventurer
Supporter
My group and I (most of whom have been playing together on and off since 1995 or so) are seriously unimpressed with the 5e mage "specialists." The fact that all of them can learn all the same spells makes them all way too same-y for our tastes.

So the rule we implemented is what we call "true specialists." It's simple: only a specialist in a given school can cast spells of 3rd level or higher in that school. So if you wan to cast fireball, you better be an Evoker. Wanna cast dispel magic? Better be an Abjurer.

This approach does wonders to make the specialists actually feel like specialists, and is also great for worldbuilding. It also cuts down on the swiss army knife effect casters have on many campaigns; some challenges are still.much easier if you have a wizard, but no wizard is a one-size-fits-all solution to all problems.
I actually wanted to try having specialists only be able to cast spells in their school.

Then I saw how unbalanced the schools of magic really are...

Would be a great way to do a spell expansion book!
 

Aelryinth

Explorer
It could be said that Summoning is the school that balances out all the others, because if you Summon the right thing, you can pretty much cover the jobs of all the other magical schools!
 

CubicsRube

Adventurer
Supporter
@Aelryinth it sounds like this thread is not for you.

Yes it would require a lot of work. And yes it would change the classes significantly. That's the point!

So I'm asking others if they want to share their opinions on how this would be done.

If you don't want to contribute that's fine, but please don't threadcrap.
 

CubicsRube

Adventurer
Supporter
I have put a fair bit of thought into such a thing. It would be a huge undertaking, but the end result could be really, really cool. What I would probably do is scrap the schools of magic and re-categorize spells by color. I’d also make lots of summon spells for each color, because summoning creatures is a big part of MtG. I’d also bring back classic Vancian spell preparation where each use of a spell has to be prepared separately, and I’d have you prepare 7 spells on a long rest. On a short rest you can prepare an additional spell, then if you have more than 7 spells prepared, chose one of them to “forget.” Use spell points instead of spell slots and call them mana.
Yes definitely a lot of recategorisation. I also imagine quite a few extant spells in M:tG could be converted to a D&D standard without hopefully too much work per spell.

I'd be tempted still to keep the spell slots and spell levels, just because moving to a spell point system would require even more work in rebalancing, IMO.
 

Aelryinth

Explorer
@Aelryinth it sounds like this thread is not for you.

Yes it would require a lot of work. And yes it would change the classes significantly. That's the point!

So I'm asking others if they want to share their opinions on how this would be done.

If you don't want to contribute that's fine, but please don't threadcrap.
I replied the way I did BECAUSE you were NOT asking for opinions. You were asking people to do the work for you.

So, that is a nice redirection of attention and trying to blame me for it, but I'm not buying it.

If you want opinions, state it. If you want work done, generally the best thing to do is start out by generating work of your own and sharing it... or asking if there's products out there that do what you want, which I believe the Spheres series does.
 

CubicsRube

Adventurer
Supporter
I replied the way I did BECAUSE you were NOT asking for opinions. You were asking people to do the work for you.

So, that is a nice redirection of attention and trying to blame me for it, but I'm not buying it.

If you want opinions, state it. If you want work done, generally the best thing to do is start out by generating work of your own and sharing it... or asking if there's products out there that do what you want, which I believe the Spheres series does.
No I didn't ask for others to do the work for me. This is to share ideas for people that want to.

And since you're being an A-hole you can take a report and a block.
 

Aelryinth

Explorer
No I didn't ask for others to do the work for me. This is to share ideas for people that want to.

And since you're being an A-hole you can take a report and a block.
Wow, nice passive aggressive when I can look right at your first post and see you are NOT asking for opinions.
Right back at you for swearing and name-calling.

I suggest you restart the thread posting how you changed the game and based off that inquire if anyone else would like to share their changes too.
 




Aelryinth

Explorer
My solution was to leave spellcaster classes as they are but disconnect them from their spell lists. Then I reworked all spells into five spell lists, one for each colour.
Did you just chop up the lists a bit, or rework them entirely? And did you keep a universal school?
Also, were there 'gold' spells of multiple colors?
 

CubicsRube

Adventurer
Supporter
My solution was to leave spellcaster classes as they are but disconnect them from their spell lists. Then I reworked all spells into five spell lists, one for each colour.
Did you produce something on this?

I was thinking to make a "planeswalker" class where you have to choose 1 colour and that determines your list.

I'm uncertain if I would have a setting with only planeswalkers, or combine with other classes (particularly the mundanes), or if I'd allow planeswalkers to learn multiple colours of spells (and how that would work)

I would be tempted to have a planeswalker only campaign with single colour specialists however.
 

CubicsRube

Adventurer
Supporter
I choose you, Pikachu, wait... That is too much work.
Yes, more of a muse product than anything serious.

Although if I find myself with an abundance source of energy and time, I might put together some spell lists and post them here for critique.
 

Laurefindel

Legend
Did you just chop up the lists a bit, or rework them entirely? And did you keep a universal school?
Also, were there 'gold' spells of multiple colors?
I reworked the lists entirely, but didn't make any gold or colorless spells.

Did you produce something on this?

I was thinking to make a "planeswalker" class where you have to choose 1 colour and that determines your list.

I still have them somewhere. At that time the only spells outside the PHB were from the Elemental Companion, so the lists don't comprise spells from Xanathar or Tasha.

Making one planeswalker class seams more manageable than five new ones (or fifteen if you count double-colour decks)
 


An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top