D&D Minis vs. Warhammer?

[Steel_Wind]

One of my clients runs a store that used to sell a lot of Warhammer.

He still sells, but he says over the past 6-12 months or so not as briskly as he once did. He is the cheapest Warhammer store in Toronto (Gamerama) and there have not been any new retailers opened selling Warhammer in the past 18 months or so, so the reduction in demand is not from a shift from one store to another.

Whether or not this drop in demand is attributable to D&D Minis is another matter entirely. All popular games have cycles and Warhammer is not what it was four to five years ago.

I expect that it is having an effect, but more on the entry end into Warhammer's business than promoting any real defections from GW's current customers. Much like Magic's effect on TSR in the first few years, it took a while for Magic to hurt RPG sales by diverting those young customers who would otherwise have entered the hobby to replace existing customers as they leave (To be clear, I am not suggesting D&D Minis are as pervasive as Magic was in 1994-1996 - but interference with customer churn is the point.)

Over the long run, diverting new customers and screwing up your churn numbers does has a considerable effect, but it takes time to show up.

 

[reanjr]

In my experience (I do not wargame, but I frequent a shop that hosts a lot of wargaming) D&D minis has made NO impact on Warhammer. I've never actually seen anyone play the D&D minis game. Plenty of people use them for D&D, but no one plays the minis game.

 

[Steel_Wind]

I've seen a lot of D&D skirmish play. Comic Warehouse, the Toronto areas largest gaming store has a lot of skirmish play going on on weekend afternoons.

Now - they don't sell Warhmammer and their only real competitor with D&D minis is Mageknight and Clix.

I'm sure the Warhammer stores are still having their games per normal.

That's why I don't think existing customers are being effected much. But if you don't have a new customer because he's been diverted to buy crack-in-a-box, it does have an effect over time.

There is more skirmish play going on then I think we realize. The Wizards forums have a HUGE spike in people browsing the minis forums vs traditional RPG forums.

I don't think all those forums visitors over there are just reading about RPG use of minis. Maybe I'm wrong, but if they were just gamers using minis during play - wouldn't they be spending their time on other forums more?

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I've actually seen more folks playing the Star Wars mini game than the D&D one. Maybe that's just my area.

Same here. Star Wars minis are huge around here - bigger than D&D minis, almost as big as Magic.

Neither have had any impact on Warhammer. In fact, the regular in-store WH games in my area have essentially tripled in the past year and may soon quadruple. A second 3rd-party store started running them, a GW store opened, and another FLGS is heavily marketing in-store gaming of all types to go with its recent revamp - WH and in-store gaming just seem to go together.

 

[ThirdWizard]

At my not so FLGS (ixnay on the local), for the month of March:

Yu-Gi-Oh Tournaments: 2
Warhammer 40k Tournaments: 2 (only free tourny)
Heroclix Tournaments: 3
Magic: the Gathering Tournaments: 4
Mechwarrior Tournaments: 4
Star Wars Miniature Tournaments: 4 (all 100 pt)
D&D Miniature Tournaments: 5 (2 500 pt, 1 sealed, 1 Deathknell)

There's also lots more, VS System, some DBGT game, Yu Yu Hakusho, even an Inu Yasha game. All of these have more individual tournies than the Warhammer, and everything else is $5 unless its sealed.

Last time I was there someone tried to get the Gold Dragon I popped out of my Mini box. Heh, no way. I can say that the D&D Mini game is pretty popular, more popular in my old College town than Warhammer at the moment, obviously. However, I have to point out that in a nearby town there is an entire shop at the mall devoted to Warhammer completely. I was amazed. They usually have 3-6 people (non-employees) in there, and run their own tournaments. And they've been in business almost a year now without going under.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

I bet Warmachine is having an impact on Warhammer though

Agreed. Warmachine, being a minis game similar to Warhammer, has kind of a mystique to it. Unlike Warhammer, you don't have the option to customize your units or your individual guys, the Warmachine figs are certainly a little more imaginative and inspirational. Also, since the company, Privateer Press, seems to be a little friendlier, that may have something to do with their great success.

 

[cmanos]

Um, no. Not at all. I sold my soul to Games Workshop a long time ago. D&D skirmish and Warhammer are two very different monsters.

 

[JoeGKushner]

We'll probalby never know because there are other factors on the Warhammer front like them increasing the cost of their miniatures several times over the last few years.

 

[satori01]

As a non wargaming minature enthusiast, I have to say I still find the quality of Games Workshop minatures to be better than the D&D pre painted.

In the future I am more apt to buy a lone Warhammer figure or two for gaming, then I think new D&D prepainted, for a simple reason.... space. The D&d minis just encourage a lot of waste, in terms of extra figures you simply dont need or want, and my minatures shelves are at maximum capacity.

The Harbinger set reminds me of the 3.0 class splat books vs Complete X books; those orgignal models were so badly painted, that now new sculpts are being included in new sets, already excerbating the whole "elf with bow" over population problem I have. I

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Oh, no doubt the quality of Warhammer minis is better. But that's comparing apples to oranges b/c you aren't taking into account price. Warhammer is much more expensive. Plus you have to paint them, which creates additional cost and time.