D&D New Version

[Greenfield]

According to the article linked below, Wizards is planning yet another new edition for D&D.

Wizards of the Coasts announces new edition of 'Dungeons and Dragons' – GeekOut - CNN.com Blogs

I personally see this as a whit flag of sorts, an acknowledgment that the much vaunted 4th Edition isn't living up to their hopes or the hype.

We'll see.

 

[Buugipopuu]

Does that mean that this forum's also going to be about 4e discussion in a year or so?

 

[Nebten]

Very likely.

Greenfield, you are a little behind the gun. There are already a number of threads with this discussion in News and General RPG.

 

[Arrowhawk]

It's hard for me not to view new editions of D&D with anything but cynicism. I'm sure the game designers are earnest in their desire to create a better experience, to provide people with the best game they can manage. But as a company, WotC is driven by the need to make money and as you (Greenfield) suggests, you have to figure WotC is looking for something new and shiny to sell.

What pushes me over the edge of cynicism is the method in which WotC has gone about it. 3.5 is still very popular. But rather than service its existing customer base, WotC abandon them and refuses to answer any questions or provide any support for 3.5. WotC published a ton of splat books fro 3.5. People spent a lot of money buying 3.5 product. But as soon as WotC moved to another edition, they dropped all the 3.5 players like an ex-girlfriend. You have a questions about rules in 3.5? Too bad, buy 4e.

WotC has convinced me that they aren't really interested in what's best for the gamer, they're interested in profit. The problem is that most companies don't understand that the relationship you have with your customers is crucial to profit.

I'm not interested in supporting WotC with the attitude they've displayed. If WotC refuses to recognize my needs as a 3.5 player, I'm very happy to play a version from which they generate little or not profit.

 

[kitcik]

It's hard for me not to view new editions of D&D with anything but cynicism. I'm sure the game designers are earnest in their desire to create a better experience, to provide people with the best game they can manage. But as a company, WotC is driven by the need to make money and as you (Greenfield) suggests, you have to figure WotC is looking for something new and shiny to sell.

What pushes me over the edge of cynicism is the method in which WotC has gone about it. 3.5 is still very popular. But rather than service its existing customer base, WotC abandon them and refuses to answer any questions or provide any support for 3.5. WotC published a ton of splat books fro 3.5. People spent a lot of money buying 3.5 product. But as soon as WotC moved to another edition, they dropped all the 3.5 players like an ex-girlfriend. You have a questions about rules in 3.5? Too bad, buy 4e.

WotC has convinced me that they aren't really interested in what's best for the gamer, they're interested in profit. The problem is that most companies don't understand that the relationship you have with your customers is crucial to profit.

I'm not interested in supporting WotC with the attitude they've displayed. If WotC refuses to recognize my needs as a 3.5 player, I'm very happy to play a version from which they generate little or not profit.

In defense of WOTC, I think they are being influenced by their corporate owner (Hasbro). WOTC was an entrepreneurial shop like TSR headed by a gaming visionary. They have done well supporting all editions of MTG IMHO.

I expect that one day we will see "D&D Classic - the re-release of 1st Edition." Anyone disagree?

 

[Osgood]

WotC has convinced me that they aren't really interested in what's best for the gamer, they're interested in profit.

Holy cow! A company interested in... profit? Perhaps even putting profit above the good of its customers? Does the president know about this? Has someone alerted the media?

Thank heavens Wall Street, the fast food industry, and big tobacco still have our backs!

 

[Dice4Hire]

I expect that one day we will see "D&D Classic - the re-release of 1st Edition." Anyone disagree?

Yep, unless you count a release of existing product. Pdf or DDI or whatnot.

I cannot see them making anything new for 1E.

 

[Arrowhawk]

Holy cow! A company interested in... profit? Perhaps even putting profit above the good of its customers? Does the president know about this? Has someone alerted the media?

Thank heavens Wall Street, the fast food industry, and big tobacco still have our backs!

I think you're being a little obtuse here. The issue isn't that they are interested in making money, the issue is the methodology. If you've ever taken any classes in marketing, it's been proven that it's cheaper to keep an existing customer than to generate a new one. I was a customer. But since they've decided they won't answer questions with regards to products they sold, on a version they wanted me to buy, I'm not interested in supporting their new products.

I bought some Calphalon non-stick pots over a decade ago. Last year, I sent one back and they replaced it for free. I can guarantee you the next set of pots I be will be from the same company.

 

[Croesus]

...it's been proven that it's cheaper to keep an existing customer than to generate a new one.

Sure. But stick to that in the wrong market and you'll go bankrupt.

I agree it's almost always less expensive to keep a customer than to acquire a new one. And that works great for light bulbs and such, since your customers will have to replace your product on a regular basis, generating consistent sales.

But what happens if you sell your customer something they never have to replace?

Once someone bought the core books (or just downloaded the SRD for free), they didn't need to make a single additional purchase from WOTC. And those who did buy other items reached a point of diminishing returns - the first splat has value, the fifty-first splat far less so.

So even if WOTC keeps all their original 3.x customers (not likely), their revenue from the system was bound to dry up. They were selling the equivalent of light bulbs that never burned out. For a while they convinced people to buy new light bulbs with different colors and shapes, but what happens when every serious customer has 50 light bulbs that never burn out?

 

[Arrowhawk]

Sure. But stick to that in the wrong market and you'll go bankrupt.

I think the market is gamers, is it not? I see the problem is one of business strategy. Creating a product that by its very nature alienates previous customers seems to be a lose-lose strategy. Why not build on the existing product in a way that includes both new players and old?

But what happens if you sell your customer something they never have to replace?

Funny you should ask that question. Why don't we ask Toyota and Honda back in the late 80's and see what they have to say about it?

So even if WOTC keeps all their original 3.x customers (not likely), their revenue from the system was bound to dry up. They were selling the equivalent of light bulbs that never burned out.

Ironic, because this is exactly the attitude American car companies had in the late 50's. Amercan cars were designed to wear out. What happened? The Japanese made cars that did not and the made huge profits. Customers want quality (as simple as bang for buck). Giving them a product that you intentionally force into obsolescence is going to erode your customers confidence in the quality of your offering.

Rather than trotting out a new version of D&D every x years, why not offer new and interesting products that enhance the products you have now?

Let's be be bold faced about this. WotC cut off support to 3.5, in part, to help force people to buy 4e. Trying to strong arm me in to buying a new product when I'm very happy with the one I have, is not going to win me over.