D&D Online to gradually transfer from 3.5 to 4e

[ProfessorCirno]

That was my impression of NWN as well. It was okay, but controlling one PC and having a henchman follow you around just isn't the same as controlling a party of 4 to 6 characters. D&D is about parties.

NWN2's next expansion solves that, albeit as the little kids kids on the Bioware forums cry about it.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I play DDO almost every day; I'd say I've averaged 15 hours a week since launch and that makes me a casual player.

Folks complaining about DDO not being a good game fall into three camps:

1) The game doesn't comport to their vision of D&D (or Eberron)

There's actually no possible argument about the latter. D&D Online has almost nothing to do with Eberron apart from the names - its visuals, feel, and approach to the setting are completely wrongheaded.

 

[amysrevenge]

I'm not sure if you've tried an MMO before, but... there are a lot more abilities in WoW than in D&D 4e.

I may have mis-spoke. I didn't mean reduce the number of powers just to have fewer; I meant that many of the powers would have to be removed or simplified in order to make the game work.

Types of things that wouldn't work in real time (wihout major revision beyond recognition):

1) Opportunity Attacks
2) Interrupts (unless they involve no choice to their effects)
3) Any "slide" effect (push and pull would still work)
4) Any "shift" effect
5) Most of the Warlord's powers (esp. ones that involve granting attacks to allies)
6) Minor or Free actions

These are the things that occurred to me as fast as I could type them. I'm sure that a moment's reflection would result in many additions to the list.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I may have mis-spoke. I didn't mean reduce the number of powers just to have fewer; I meant that many of the powers would have to be removed or simplified in order to make the game work.

Ah, okay, I see what you mean. I'm not sure how much you know of WoW, so I'll just expand a little bit.

Types of things that wouldn't work in real time (wihout major revision beyond recognition):

1) Opportunity Attacks

WoW has some powers that are based on other things, in sort of a reactive manner. It wouldn't work for movement, but... well, I doubt anyone would care really?

2) Interrupts (unless they involve no choice to their effects)

Spell interupts are in WoW, there's other various reprisal attacks also.

3) Any "slide" effect (push and pull would still work)
4) Any "shift" effect

Sure, as written they wouldn't work, but again... this stuff is just 4e, so I'm not sure how many people would care that it was gone. I'm sure they could work a "slide" mechanic into real time, though.

5) Most of the Warlord's powers (esp. ones that involve granting attacks to allies)

Yeah, gone most likely. I'm sure a lot of this stuff would have some method of working it in, though fans of the material might not appreciate it.

6) Minor or Free actions

Depends on the action of course. There would be no rounds, just cooldowns. Casting time/ interuption in WoW is drawn out sometimes, but compared to the D&D "round" being a longer amount of time, it's not that different really.

A 2 seconds casting time can seem like forever.

These are the things that occurred to me as fast as I could type them. I'm sure that a moment's reflection would result in many additions to the list.

The problem would be that fan's would nitpick about every little thing that they change for the format, really. If they replicate every class and race except Warlord, someone out there would say they messed it up and it's not D&D.

I do think they could get it closer to 4e than you would at first consider, but some concessions are required in any format.

 

[dmchucky]

I play DDO almost every day; I'd say I've averaged 15 hours a week since launch and that makes me a casual player.

Folks complaining about DDO not being a good game fall into three camps:

1) The game doesn't comport to their vision of D&D (or Eberron)
2) They can't solo
3) The game doesn't sport WoW's subscription base

Neither of these detract from the play value of DDO. It is a fantastic game.

As for "transitioning" it to 4e, it will be a snap. I got more good 4e previews from playing DDO than I got out of WotC. I am not being facetious-- there are huge chunks of the 4e design philosophy in DDO.

I play DDO exclusively also (on Sarlona). I love it, and never want to play another MMO (Unless the Firefly one takes off someday). Obviously, I hope that it stays far, far away from 4th Edition (don't want them taking away all my spells and giving me 'powers' and 'rituals' in return; no thank you).

One thing I really love are the graphics; WOW graphics look too much like cartoons.

And from what my guildleader has told me (he started in Beta), the game has changed 500%. I'd advise everyone to try the current version before putting it to the sword.

 

[Jhaelen]

The way I saw it, if they ever wanted to make a DnD MMO it should be more like DnD rather than MMO with a DnD name. I know this sounds like something a lot of people have said, but what I mean is, it should be a MMO where people play DnD.

Well, the main problem as I see it is that D&D centers on the pcs being the heroes. They're extraodinary in every way. This is impossible in a MMO-type game where you are just one among thousands. To have a game that 'feels like' playing D&D you have to have something like Neverwinter Nights, i.e. a game you either play solo or with a couple of friends.

That's a wildly vague and open-ended claim, and completely fails to take reasonable account of development and operating costs.

DDO is still operating for essentially two reasons:

[snip]

Well, that's what YOU think I think your claim is just as vague and open-ended as what I wrote.

Don't be saying that a game that likely took multiple tens of millions of dollars to develop is "doing fine" because it has subscriber figures that are considered "good" for the "majority" of MMORPGs, most of which cost about tuppence and a bit of string to develop, which seems to be the heart of your argument.

Well, I don't know how much the development of DDO has cost, but looking at your wording you don't have any idea either.

If you got the impression my main point was about 'MMORPGs, most of which cost about tuppence and a bit of string to develop' I probably didn't illustrate my point very well.

I think it's wrong to expect making a steady profit from developing and running an MMO if you aren't prepared to invest a couple of million bucks beforehand. A low-budget MMO will most likely not be able to keep a large player base over long periods of time.

I'm a software engineer and I've actually sat down with colleagues from other departments doing some of the math after hearing about the 'magic number' of 50000 subscribers for the first time.
What we found was that, assuming a development period of about 2 years you'll start to make a profit after the first year. It's not like 'wow, we're all going to be millionaires in no time', but it's sufficiently high that it's worth doing. Make of that what you will.

 

[Hussar]

I would point out that Second Life, which is by many accounts, a very successful MMO and hardly shoestring budget, also runs in similar numbers to DDO.

In the end, we're all shooting in the dark, because we have no real ideas of how much it takes to start and run an MMO. Seems to me, though, that maintaining about 50k subscribers for a couple of years means that they are not losing money.

We'll see in a few more years how it goes.

 

[Hussar]

I would point out that Second Life, which is by many accounts, a very successful MMO and hardly shoestring budget, also runs in similar numbers to DDO.

In the end, we're all shooting in the dark, because we have no real ideas of how much it takes to start and run an MMO. Seems to me, though, that maintaining about 50k subscribers for a couple of years means that they are not losing money.

We'll see in a few more years how it goes.