D&D (2024) D&D Pre-orders; this is sad

[Oofta]

I am quite certain that this was before they announced the new 3D VTT formally, and it was later clarified that is whybtheybhired hundreds of software people.

Maybe. Other things I've heard is that DDB needed a dramatic back end redesign, which would make sense with changes they need for the 2024 edition changes.

I'm not sure we'll ever know exact numbers, or that it matters. Either the VTT will be amazing or it will forever remain vaporware. Like Half-Life 2 episode 3. I need to know what happened to Gordon Freeman!

 

[Steve Bonario]

Unlike video games and software, which are created by other people and whose salable content is limited to what is coded by the "owners" of the IP, a TTRPG requires literally nothing more than a pencil, paper, possibly dice, and your own imagination. This is one reason companies have long struggled to monetize TTRPG rules/content beyond its initial release.

4e D&D benefitted from having online tools but they were not required to play. They certainly made game prep easier for DMs. But I'm glad I have all my 4e sourcebooks in physical form -- there was good content in them, from play advice to imaginative scenarios to rules systems that were interesting (such as disease progression/curing).

I own my Word 2010 installation discs and still use Word 2010 because it works, I paid for it, no one keeps charging me money to use it, no one can just arbitrarily decide to change its features or UI -- and I get to choose when I want to stop using it.

I own my 1e AD&D books/modules and all the other books/modules I bought from 1979 (when i started playing) through today. In my current campaign I've made use of material from past editions and am very glad I still have those books and that my access to them is not dependent on having a computer or electricity or an internet connection or a subscription.

The above is what works for me. I'm glad I have the freedom of choice that comes with owning analog materials, and digital-on-physical-media. I think TTRPGs will keep that tradition alive unless the cost of printing and shipping gets too high to be cost effective.

All the D&D "2024" pre-release content/marketing is of no interest to me. Unlike video games, I'm already playing D&D and the new release has no impact on my enjoyment of my current campaign. I'm sure I'll look at the new content some time down the road, but until then I still have 40 years of content to work with that's still as useful as when it was originally published.

 

[mamba]

Do we know if that was for VTT or all digital?

I thought it was VTT only, but I could be wrong, has been a while

A lot of AAA video games have been developed using that many developers, but I can't imagine a VTT needing that many.

I cannot imagine it either, but here we are… and I do not see DDB needing anywhere near that either, but WotC hired that many

Keep in mind that these are not all developers I assume, some / many will be artists, you need a lot of assets.

 

[mamba]

EDIT: there were 350 hired for DDB so we don't know what percentage are working on VTT or did I not re-read far enough?

or I did not remember correctly, either way these are people working on digital solutions, not anything print related. So the ‘WotC is investing heavily in digital, to know where a company is going, look at what it invests in’ still stands.

Given the relative investment, print is an afterthought

 

[mamba]

Maybe. Other things I've heard is that DDB needed a dramatic back end redesign, which would make sense with changes they need for the 2024 edition changes.

that should take a lot less people than a VTT does

Either the VTT will be amazing or it will forever remain vaporware.

I am surprised it still is as much vaporware as it is today, imo they are far behind their initial / intended schedule

 

[Remathilis]

it’s a fact but we do not have the numbers

sure, but if you only buy one of the two, they prefer digital…

if enough people buy one or the other, not both, then people buying books is less profit. Once they depressed the number of book buyers far enough, WotC is better off stopping them and getting some to digital while losing others.

For the last holdouts, have some expensive editions. I am not saying they will not print a single book any more, only that they are working towards leaving the mass market behind for digital

agreed, and we certainly have no idea how many will do so in, say, 15 years… so not much of an argument for either of us, unless you think I have to demonstrate that it is a large enough number, but you do not (ie you are not making the claim that they continue printing books)

same as the one above. I agree it is an assumption, I don’t see why it is not possible to get the market there.

We will have to see, it is a prediction, it can be wrong. If I had to bet on it today, I would not bet against it.

You keep forgetting that Hasbro is a toy company and has other digital + meat space products other than D&D. Magic: The Gathering Arena has not slowly wound down the desire for paper Magic, in fact the most popular format (Commander) is only supported by paper Magic (and WotC realizes that and releases four new Commander decks every set release). Likewise, Monopoly Go! has not killed production of the classic board game or its 10,000 variants and licensed versions. Hasbro hasn't managed to stop selling board games and card games despite having digital alternatives, but Dungeons & Dragons is going to have it's point books ended and become all digital?

I'll tell you what: find me the conspiracy that Hasbro intends to end making physical MTG card and Monopoly boards, and I'll buy your prediction for D&D books. Until then, it's nothing but fear mongering.

 

[Oofta]

I thought it was VTT only, but I could be wrong, has been a while


I cannot imagine it either, but here we are… and I do not see DDB needing anywhere near that either, but WotC hired that many

It depends on what they need to do, what the people are actually doing, and what their plans are. As one simple example, they've started allowing 3PP monster books. There's more than meets the eye to make something like that work. Getting a system that allows easy and flexible class builds is also more work than a lot of people would assume. DDB has a decent front end, but a lot of companies really skimp on the backend so those people need to do a lot of crappy shortcuts to make things work.

But if the VTT is going to be truly amazing it has to seamlessly integrate backend and front end together. Will it figure out if your rogue is getting sneak attack damage and automatically add it in? Because right now I have to code sneak attack damage as a separate entry.

Along with that, you'd probably want an encounter builder that wasn't still in beta years after it was first introduced.

Keep in mind that these are not all developers I assume, some / many will be artists, you need a lot of assets.

It also depends on what they are trying to produce. They could be doing something similar to heroforge.com where you build a custom mini. But I agree, a lot could also be spent on just art and assets.

I also don't see that it has much impact on selling books. They are expanding their business model, it doesn't mean they're ever going to get rid of existing business. Selling books does not have to be more profitable than digital, it just has to be profitable. In addition, digital has a risk factor that books don't.

 

[mamba]

I'll tell you what: find me the conspiracy that Hasbro intends to end making physical MTG card and Monopoly boards, and I'll buy your prediction for D&D books.

really, I’d thought you dismiss them as conspiracies

Until then, it's nothing but fear mongering.

eh, I have no interest in fear mongering, I do not see it as such either. If you had said it is nothing but speculation then I’d say you have a point, it absolutely is, even if from my perspective the odds are in my favor

 

[Maxperson]

We're down to one from two, not counting the B&N college bookstore on campus - and it's non textbook section might be down to having fewer books than we do here at home.

The ones here are pretty much all around this size. One or two might be one story. Last year or the year before they blew out their board game section for like 80% off or something and I bought 6 or 7 games for around $100. I was told that they were getting rid of them in store, but a few months later they were all back at full price. Someone messed up pretty badly, but I made out like a bandit.

 

[Parmandur]

or I did not remember correctly, either way these are people working on digital solutions, not anything print related. So the ‘WotC is investing heavily in digital, to know where a company is going, look at what it invests in’ still stands.

Given the relative investment, print is an afterthought

Hardly an afterthought, based on them also having hired up in book design and production. It really isn't an either-or situation.