D&D/Saga Edition: Additional Hitpoints at 1st Level...

[Paraxis]

If you are thinking of using HP kicker, run this through your cortex. In a campaign I played in the DM used your Con as kind of a HP bonus. What happened was after you went through your hit points which represented nicks/scrapes and what not then damage went to Con score
which would drop to 1 then you would go down the 0 to -10 hp track of unconscious/dying.

This made people live through the orc with the axe but put you down con for days sometimes.

I do think that the whole 3 times thing in StarWars is all about being able to live through one blaster hit or light saber swing.

I'll second, starting games at higher level I use 2nd so people can multi-class and it make sense with back story and allow people to play EL +1 races.

 

[Flynn]

I'll second, starting games at higher level I use 2nd so people can multi-class and it make sense with back story and allow people to play EL +1 races.

But what if I don't want to start games at a higher level? That's what I mentioned in the post that you responded to. I know that's a solution, but I want the PCs to play through 1st level. If I wanted to start above 1st, then I wouldn't even have to ask the original question, truth be told.

Thanks for the input, though,
Flynn

 

[moritheil]

I'd just start the PCs at 3rd level.

Less hassle.

 

[Flynn]

Less hassle.

<sarcasm>Yeah, I'm beginning to see the light... Give up on playing 1st level characters... All games should start at 3rd level... The game wasn't meant to be played at 1st level...</sarcasm>

Oh, well, I think I've gotten all the input on this topic that I'm going to get. At the moment, it has started to become a series of "me, too" postings, and I doubt that will change. That should tell me something right there. Thank you to all who responded, particularly those that contributed to the actual "1st level" part of the discussion.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[moritheil]

<sarcasm>Yeah, I'm beginning to see the light... Give up on playing 1st level characters... All games should start at 3rd level... The game wasn't meant to be played at 1st level...</sarcasm>

Oh, well, I think I've gotten all the input on this topic that I'm going to get. At the moment, it has started to become a series of "me, too" postings, and I doubt that will change. That should tell me something right there. Thank you to all who responded, particularly those that contributed to the actual "1st level" part of the discussion.

With Regards,
Flynn

Sorry, I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that I fail to see the conceptual problem with calling characters "3rd level characters" when you want to give them the benefits of 3rd level. You can still send them on first-level quests, etc. if that's what you want to do.

In other words . . . what does starting the game at something other than 1st level mean to you? I don't see where it forces you to do anything differently aside from giving them more hit points and skills, which would help them be heroic, but you continually speak of it negatively, so what am I missing?

 

[Flynn]

Sorry, I'm not trying to be snarky. It's just that I fail to see the conceptual problem with calling characters "3rd level characters" when you want to give them the benefits of 3rd level. You can still send them on first-level quests, etc. if that's what you want to do.

In other words . . . what does starting the game at something other than 1st level mean to you? I don't see where it forces you to do anything differently aside from giving them more hit points and skills, which would help them be heroic, but you continually speak of it negatively, so what am I missing?

To be truthful, there are only a few things that really drive the 1st level push for me: I'd rather the PCs not have access to second level spells right off the bat. I don't want PCs to start off with second level or third level special abilities at the start of their careers, but rather grow into them. I don't want to start with the potential for multiclassed characters. It's that kind of thing.

If you give characters the abilities of second and third level characters, they are no longer first level characters. I'm not talking about giving anyone those abilities. I'm just talking about adding some hitpoints to help them survive at the lowest level of play. I don't consider a hitpoint bonus to be "giving them the benefits of 3rd level", as you put it, but I think I'm in the minority here. BTW, I didn't mean that poorly or anything. I just have a different concept of what "give them the benefits of 3rd level" means, I guess.

Maybe this was just a dumb idea on my part. Oh, well.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying your position here. Hope this helps clarify mine.

Hasta,
Flynn

 

[glass]

Have you considered the Gestalt rules from Unearthed Arcana? They make the characters more durable, without giving them access to key abilities any earlier.


glass.

 

[Plane Sailing]

If you are thinking of using HP kicker, run this through your cortex. In a campaign I played in the DM used your Con as kind of a HP bonus. What happened was after you went through your hit points which represented nicks/scrapes and what not then damage went to Con score
which would drop to 1 then you would go down the 0 to -10 hp track of unconscious/dying.

This made people live through the orc with the axe but put you down con for days sometimes.

I've used this kind of idea with quite a lot of success in a previous D&D campaign. It was a little bit like having the good bits from 'vitality & wound" systems without the extreme vulnerability that can generate.

Under my version of this system hit point damage could be recovered quickly through resting (level hp per hour of rest), but Con damage that you took when you ran out of hp took much longer (1pt per day) and limited your maximum hp as well while you were down through lower Con bonus.

The upsides to this approach from my POV are:

1) 1st level characters and villains are a little more durable, which is a good thing IMO.
2) hp can be recovered at a reasonable speed outside combat without the need for magic healing, which is a good thing for campaign pacing and clerics IMO.
3) there is still the opportunity for crippling wounds (aka Con damage) which take days to heal.

Cheers

 

[MarkB]

If you are thinking of using HP kicker, run this through your cortex. In a campaign I played in the DM used your Con as kind of a HP bonus. What happened was after you went through your hit points which represented nicks/scrapes and what not then damage went to Con score
which would drop to 1 then you would go down the 0 to -10 hp track of unconscious/dying.

That would get hard to adjudicate, since reducing your CON score reduces your hit points and so should quickly kill a character who was already on 0 HP. Also, you've preserved the character through this battle, but now he's going to be incredibly fragile for any further combats for days to come, so in the long term you're simply exacerbating the problem.

 

[Krafen]

An approach that I've seen work well is to allow characters to remain conscious to their negative con modifier and die at thier negative con score. Characters are still disabled at 0.

For example:

Con: 14
Unconscious: -3
Dead: -14

The low levels tend to go very quickly, so if you want to slow it down a little to give players time to grow into their abilities, I suggest going with the +10 HP you considered.