D&D Social Stigma

[Desdichado]

You can assume lots of things, if you like The fact is that I have attended, worked at and run plenty of gaming conventions, and the same goes for mom-n-pop gaming stores (one was even owned by a mom-n-pop couple, as it happens). Still no catpiss men or scary goateed basement-dwellers, though. Take it as you please.

Well, the other alternatives are 3) you live in another country, or other area where the social dynamic is different, 4) you are yourself an example of the stereotype and don't realize it.

 

[Mark Hope]

Well, the other alternatives are 3) you live in another country, or other area where the social dynamic is different, 4) you are yourself an example of the stereotype and don't realize it.

3) By "another country" are you trying to say "outside the USA"? It might well be the case that the fascination with perceived social status and stereotypes is predominantly a USA phenomenon, but I wouldn't wish to generalise to such a degree. I live in the UK currently, but my personal experiences have held true, from Central America, to Europe to the Far East. If this is indeed a mostly USA-based phenomenon, why might that be?
4) Heh, unlikely. I am 36, live with my partner and our 2 kids, practice daily hygeine and have no social hangups. Until I gave up my regular career to raise the little 'uns, I worked for many years investigating and prosecuting war criminals at the war crimes court in the Hague. Nowadays I am a semi-professional musician. Oh, and I have nice, tight buns, too. No such stereotypes here, I'm afraid

Of course, there is a 5th alternative that you seem to have overlooked. Just as you believe my experiences not to be representative of the general gaming populace, the same might be said for yours. Maybe you're just a freak-magnet or something...

 

[Desdichado]

Of course, there is a 5th alternative that you seem to have overlooked. Just as you believe my experiences not to be representative of the general gaming populace, the same might be said for yours. Maybe you're just a freak-magnet or something...

The evidence against that is the existence of the stereotype though. It didn't come from nowhere.

 

[Mark Hope]

The evidence against that is the existence of the stereotype though. It didn't come from nowhere.

Fair enough, magnet-boy, but that brings us back to your 3rd point. In all seriousness, to what degree is this issue one that predominates in the USA? It seems to me that the majority of posts confirming the sterotype seem to refer to experiences in that country.

I was chatting to my missus about this last night. We've both attended American high schools and both remarked on how the clique-ish nature of such places was far more prevalent than elsewhere. She suggested that folks who were unable to relativise or deal with the social divides that arise in US high schools might carry those perceived labels with them into adult life, reinforcing the sterotypes that you refer to. Those who come from less divisive backgrounds might find it easier to just get on with life and put such stereotyping behind them. It's seems a bit generalised to me, but I wonder if there might not be some kernel of truth here. I don't want to offend any folks from the US, by the way - just wondering what truth there might be in this theory...

 

[Desdichado]

Fair enough, magnet-boy, but that brings us back to your 3rd point. In all seriousness, to what degree is this issue one that predominates in the USA? It seems to me that the majority of posts confirming the sterotype seem to refer to experiences in that country.

The only experience I have with gaming is with US and Canadian gamers, so I can't really answer that. I know that the whole D&D = Satanism former stigma was largely limited to the US, but I don't think that's much of a factor anymore, to be honest with you, except with a handful of people. The whole D&D = U R n3rd might be more universal, or it might not--I honestly don't know.

I doubt that Americans are more cliquish than people in general; in my experience human nature is fairly constant no matter where you live (not that I've lived everywhere, but I've traveled through a fair amount of Europe, and I have lived in South America for an extended period of time.) Historically, Americans may have had a more individualistic, "I don't care what you think about me" culture than some, but I doubt that's a major factor anymore, if it ever really was.

 

[jester47]

It seems to be expressively forbidden by the author. From a thread regarding this topic on rpg.net:

"WotC has the rights to do a Potter RPG, but Rowling has stated she feels RPG "rot kids brains." That's a direct quote from the woman at WotC in charge of flying to England and trying to covince Rowling otherwise."

Talk about social stigma .

Funny she might say that. I could make a pretty good argument that she has a 1st ed Monster Manual on her desk. There are too many things in her stories that only someone experienced with D&D would know. Too many of her monsters have a gygaxian twist that just isn't there if you get the info from folklore.

 

[Mark Hope]

The only experience I have with gaming is with US and Canadian gamers, so I can't really answer that. I know that the whole D&D = Satanism former stigma was largely limited to the US, but I don't think that's much of a factor anymore, to be honest with you, except with a handful of people. The whole D&D = U R n3rd might be more universal, or it might not--I honestly don't know.

I doubt that Americans are more cliquish than people in general; in my experience human nature is fairly constant no matter where you live (not that I've lived everywhere, but I've traveled through a fair amount of Europe, and I have lived in South America for an extended period of time.) Historically, Americans may have had a more individualistic, "I don't care what you think about me" culture than some, but I doubt that's a major factor anymore, if it ever really was.

Yeah, human nature is indeed a constant - can't disagree with you there. I was more referring to US high schools, which (in my experience, at least) are a bit more cliquish than others I attended. I'm not making any generalisations about US society at large, just that particular crucible. For such an individualistic nation, it always struck me as a particularlly odd incongruity that US high schools seemed to be so conformist. By comparison, here in the UK, kids tend to be more individualistic in high school and more conformist in adult life - something of the reverse.

What do other posters in this thread think? Is there are strong cultural element in the perception of the gamer stereotype? Is it universal? There is certainly not a consensus on its existence in this thread as a whole and I think that's pretty interesting.

 

[Sado]

openly talking about your hobbies is NOT a crusade.
its normal.
the same way you would talk about chess, or birdwatching, or last nights tv shows, talk about your gaming hobby.

and the reasons why it IS ok to blame the "persecuted" is simple, the reason these other people think something is wrong with gamers, is because they DON'T KNOW ANY NORMAL GAMERS. they ONLY know the sterotype.

Every time someone who is afraid steps forward and says "I'm normal. And I game." , someone else has their gaming stereotype shattered.

It's been my experience that the ones who are the loudest and most outspoken about being gamers are usually the same ones who perpetuate the negative stereotypes.

 

[Rel]

It's been my experience that the ones who are the loudest and most outspoken about being gamers are usually the same ones who perpetuate the negative stereotypes.

I think this goes back to the "lifestyle" bit as mentioned by The Universe. If your whole life revolves around gaming (to the exclusion of things like dating, hygene and physical exercise) then of course you're going to be loud and outspoken about it. You have nothing else to talk about.

 

[jester47]

I do have to admit though that my interest in this hobby is fading. I should clarify that- my interest in keeping up with the new stuff in the hobby is fading. Largely it is the point Dancy made- its 20 minutes of fun crammed into 4 hours. I think this happens because of too much information. Limit the information involved and you start to reduce the non-fun time and increase the fun time.

D&Ds best asset is its own worse enemy: it is open ended. This open endedness leads to more time than necessary being spent in preparation and in actual game time deliberation. Its the lack of prep time and deliberation time that has made MMORPG's more popular.

The social misfits are attracted by this prep and deliberation. Think about it- the preparation that some gamers put into their new campaign probably rivals the level of planning that goes into some people's weddings. Most well adjusted people will save the effort for things that do not fall under "game" because "game" is somthing that is by nature less important than real life. Why put that effort into somthing that is of lesser importance? To be able to raise a game to the point of importance to justify the time spent, you have to be somthing of a misfit to have that sort of rearrangement of priorities.

Thats how most of the mundanes see it. Lately my priorities have become my job, my wife and my children. I don't have the last two yet, but the way I see it, I should use this time to get ready for them. Too much D&D (notice I said too much) gets in the way and IMO hurts them even before I know them.

D&D encourages a rearrangement of priorities and I think that is why people with non-normal priorities are attracted to it.