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D&D 5E D&D Team Productivity?

Parmandur

Legend
the dmsguild license terms forbidding the author to use or sell it elsewhere keep out the very content creators making stuff for the niches wotc has been ignoring that you have been saying should be served by dmsguild. Giffyglyph makes crunchier rules stuff & swordmeow makes a ton of spells not unused by design but like many others both refuse to put their stuff on dmsguild because of that.
Well, sure: if WotC was still doing a magazine, they'd have similar conditions for accepting work for publication. Not sure what that has to do with anything...?
 

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Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
This is really a derailing off topic side answer to this, but....

At the same time that D&D has a new golden age of gaming with 5e coming online...the boardgame industry has had a similar golden age. The difference is that in the boardgame I dustry there has been a figurative firehose of new releases....and yet the hobby not only remains solid, it is still gaining momentum.

So, I attribute the rise of 5e more to the general popularity of tabletop gaming as a whole increasing and less because 5e has a slow release schedule.

My opinion, I cannot state WotC marketing knowledge in general.

A fair opinion.

Mine is that WotC (and by extension, Hasbro) have a big enough sales/marketing team that they know that if they tried to turn up the release schedule, their costs would start outweighing their new revenues. Otherwise, they're leaving money on the table.

Could they be wrong? Maybe, but they have a lot more market research data than anyone here (including myself), so I'm guessing they are probably pretty close to the mark.

That said, they have gradually been releasing more books per year (in the beginning it was closer to 3 products per year, now it seems we are consistently 4) so production does seem to be increasing to match a perceived growth in demand. But it's clearly a slow shift in their production.
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
Like I said, just one factor. But what it certainly true is that 5E is the most financially successful edition, and also the one with the slowest release schedule. I don't find this a coincidence, especially since I find that each 5E book is usually of larger size and quality than books in previous editions.
the internet's ability to help people connect & form communities shouldn't be ignored either. There are a whole lot of contributing factors that need to be ignored & dismissed to say that it's the slow release cycle or simplicity at all costs of 5e itself that creates the success alone.

Well, sure: if WotC was still doing a magazine, they'd have similar conditions for accepting work for publication. Not sure what that has to do with anything...?
That's the difference. dmsguild is not a magazine, it paid if you were hired to write something. Dmsguild license is give us your creation on spec to do whatever we want with & use however we want and you are forbidden from monetizing or sharing it in any other way regardless of if we do anything with it. Those terms are fine if you need to use dmsguild because your making an adventure for one of WotC's settings, but not so much if you are making rules or content like spells & equipment not tied to a specific setting. Even if you publish something on dmsguild, the license is so restrictive that just trying to get it published on a totally unrelated market with nothing to do with wotc like this obscure nobody of a website is all but impossible unless your content is so popular wotc tells them to add it.

edit: Not saying you are @Urriak Uruk just that other people are.
 
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Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
the internet's ability to help people connect & form communities shouldn't be ignored either. There are a whole lot of contributing factors that need to be ignored & dismissed to say that it's the slow release cycle or simplicity at all costs of 5e itself that creates the success alone.

I'll reiterate that I don't think the release schedule is the only reason for 5E's success (it's not), I just find it highly unlikely that WotC's market research would leave money on the table if speeding the schedule would result in higher profits.
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
I'll reiterate that I don't think the release schedule is the only reason for 5E's success (it's not), I just find it highly unlikely that WotC's market research would leave money on the table if speeding the schedule would result in higher profits.
I think that they are so focused on hoping that d&d can become the next organized esport type thing if they keep designing for that they are willing to exclude the rest for now.
 

Parmandur

Legend
That's the difference. dmsguild is not a magazine, it paid if you were hired to write something. Dmsguild license is give us your creation on spec to do whatever we want with & use however we want and you are forbidden from monetizing or sharing it in any other way regardless of if we do anything with it. Those terms are fine if you need to use dmsguild because your making an adventure for one of WotC's settings, but not so much if you are making rules or content like spells & equipment not tied to a specific setting. Even if you publish something on dmsguild, the license is so restrictive that just trying to get it published on a totally unrelated market with nothing to do with wotc like this obscure nobody of a website is all but impossible unless your content is so popular wotc tells them to add it.
Granted it is different, which is why I can see not looking at it...but by the same light, I wouldn't look at the magazine material, which is similarly material made from outside the company and selected for publication.

I don't particularly care if WotC has particular conditions for people publishing their material using their IP, and it doesn't seem relevant to the comparison: clearly it is working for content creators, and what WotC is providing adds value for them, and they get paid same as the magazine writers (just by royalty as opposed to a flat fee). Still doesn't make it substantially different from the magazine material similarly submitted by outsiders.
 


tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
Granted it is different, which is why I can see not looking at it...but by the same light, I wouldn't look at the magazine material, which is similarly material made from outside the company and selected for publication.

I don't particularly care if WotC has particular conditions for people publishing their material using their IP, and it doesn't seem relevant to the comparison: clearly it is working for content creators, and what WotC is providing adds value for them, and they get paid same as the magazine writers (just by royalty as opposed to a flat fee). Still doesn't make it substantially different from the magazine material similarly submitted by outsiders.
It's extremely relevant because you have been saying that dmsguild fills the role of things like new rules & mechanics once filled by things like dungeon/dragon mag making it acceptable for wotc to quit filling that need for the life of 5e due to dragon+ promoting dmsguid stuff that happens to fit within the band of goodrightfun blessed by wotc.


@Urriak Uruk I was bewildered the first time I saw it mentioned too, it's not as far out or tinfoil has as it sounds though. Here's a good start on why ;)
 

Parmandur

Legend
It's extremely relevant because you have been saying that dmsguild fills the role of things like new rules & mechanics once filled by things like dungeon/dragon mag making it acceptable for wotc to quit filling that need for the life of 5e due to dragon+ promoting dmsguid stuff that happens to fit within the band of goodrightfun blessed by wotc.


@Urriak Uruk I was bewildered the first time I saw it mentioned too, it's not as far out or tinfoil has as it sounds though. Here's a good start on why ;)
Yes, because it fills the same role. It pulls from the same pool of talent, albeit larger, and provides a similar level of oversight and playtesting.

The accidents of monetization and delivery are different, but the essence remains the same.

Again, we can discount the old magazines and DMsGuild to ease comparison, or we can consider both. But counting the magazines and not considering the DMsGuild on the same level doesn't add up.
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
Yes, because it fills the same role. It pulls from the same pool of talent, albeit larger, and provides a similar level of oversight and playtesting.

The accidents of monetization and delivery are different, but the essence remains the same.

Again, we can discount the old magazines and DMsGuild to ease comparison, or we can consider both. But counting the magazines and not considering the DMsGuild on the same level doesn't add up.
If it's structured in a way to make the people of that "same pool of talent" avoid it then it does not pull from "that same pool of talent" or remain the same in any essence.
 

Parmandur

Legend
If it's structured in a way to make the people of that "same pool of talent" avoid it then it does not pull from "that same pool of talent" or remain the same in any essence.
The DMsGuild isn't hurting for material, from what I can see, and WotC is recruiting from the authors there. There may be people who do not want to accept WotC's terms, but there were people who didn't want to submit to TSR for their magazine, either.
 

There is a difference between "WOTC isn't making stuff" vs "WOTC isn't making the stuff I want." What we want WOTC to make varies from person to person. I think that's a different subject from how much WOTC should produce.

We also need to define productivity. Is it number of releases? Word count? Amount of feats/items/subclasses?
 

Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
Out of curiosity I checked out the Table of Contents of a random old issue of Dragon. Issue 22 to be precise.

It has three articles by Gary Gygax, one review by Gary Gygax (I assume not D&D related), and an unattributed 12 page spread of "DMG Sneak Preview" material from the upcoming book. The rest of the magazine is authors whose names are unknown to me.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
@Urriak Uruk I was bewildered the first time I saw it mentioned too, it's not as far out or tinfoil has as it sounds though. Here's a good start on why ;)

Interesting article, but it does seem like they used the word esport too loosely there (they even mention how Hasbro later clarified it). It's most just saying how D&D is becoming more popular digitally, either for viewing or for playing online. But it's still largely a cooperative game, not competitive, which does make it ill-suited for esports. And in the recent releases, it doesn't seem like that's changing to be more competitive either. I'm not even sure it's becoming much more digital friendly; that path is being forged by Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, and DND Beyond, not so much WotC.
 

There is a difference between "WOTC isn't making stuff" vs "WOTC isn't making the stuff I want." What we want WOTC to make varies from person to person. I think that's a different subject from how much WOTC should produce.

We also need to define productivity. Is it number of releases? Word count? Amount of feats/items/subclasses?
Yes. I was saying something similar earlier.

Reading what people wish WOTC were doing, I think really the fact that they're not doing those things is probably less to with productivity and more to do with the fact that WOTC have made deliberate decisions not to go in certain directions.
 

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