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D&D 5E D&D Team Productivity?

So what is the big gap that so desperately needs to be filled anyway?

More player options? (Perhaps I'm alone in finding new subclasses utterly tedious and mostly illusory).
More adventures? (you could hardly have time to play through everything they have released and if you do, well there's no shortage of 3rd party stuff.
Settings? (It's a cinch to use any of the old 2E settings and there all available to download now and in any case, it's not like they haven't produced quite a few of these anyway).

Or is it less about wanting more stuff and more about wishing there was different stuff that you actually wanted to buy?
 

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Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
Who do you think made the magazine content? It wasn't in-house writers by and large, it was submissions. Admittedly, they are very different situations, so it is best to consider neither. But if we count the magazine material, we would have to compare it with DMsGuils.
If someone was paid by TSR to write an article then that content belongs to TSR and belongs on the pile. This is the case for Dragon in the 1e era and also for the current products like Aquisitions Inc or Rick and Morty.

This is unrelated to some third party who sells a compatible article they weren't contracted to work on by TSR or WotC.

If you don't agree, then you don't agree. I say if you trace the ownership of the material and it says TSR or WotC then it counts for the scale.
 

Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
So what is the big gap that so desperately needs to be filled anyway?

More player options? (Perhaps I'm alone in finding new subclasses utterly tedious and mostly illusory).
More adventures? (you could hardly have time to play through everything they have released and if you do, well there's no shortage of 3rd party stuff.
Settings? (It's a cinch to use any of the old 2E settings and there all available to download now and in any case, it's not like they haven't produced quite a few of these anyway).

Or is it less about wanting more stuff and more about wishing there was different stuff that you actually wanted to buy?
At this point the big gap for me is magic items and spells. I have enough monsters with 3rd party product but I'm not as accepting of 3rd party additional items and spells.

Also I'd like to see some optional advanced combat options in an Unearthed Arcana style supplement.
 


So what is the big gap that so desperately needs to be filled anyway?

More player options? (Perhaps I'm alone in finding new subclasses utterly tedious and mostly illusory).
More adventures? (you could hardly have time to play through everything they have released and if you do, well there's no shortage of 3rd party stuff.
Settings? (It's a cinch to use any of the old 2E settings and there all available to download now and in any case, it's not like they haven't produced quite a few of these anyway).

Or is it less about wanting more stuff and more about wishing there was different stuff that you actually wanted to buy?
I would like to see psionics, setting-specific mechanics (particularly Planescape, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Dark Sun and Spelljammer), more spells, and rules for using 5e in non-heroic fantasy genres (science-fiction, urban fantasy, modern, low fantasy, etc). The Historical Reference series from 2e was amazing; I'd like to see more stuff like that.

For example. I'm sure other people want other stuff. I could get what I want elsewhere (and have) or make it up of course. I'm just saying I would buy those things if WotC produced them.
 

Parmandur

Legend
If someone was paid by TSR to write an article then that content belongs to TSR and belongs on the pile. This is the case for Dragon in the 1e era and also for the current products like Aquisitions Inc or Rick and Morty.

This is unrelated to some third party who sells a compatible article they weren't contracted to work on by TSR or WotC.

If you don't agree, then you don't agree. I say if you trace the ownership of the material and it says TSR or WotC then it counts for the scale.

TSR didn't assign employees articles: they took fan submissions and paid for them of they liked the submission. Fundamentally identical to fans submitting their work on the DMsGuild and getting promoted by WotC editors who review submissions. Different day, same stuff.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I don't think that would apply if there isn't an objective truth. This is just personal preference on how much content people want to see.

Well, in theory, there's something like an optimal pace of release for the market at the time.

Historically (and, I think, here and now) a whole lot of armchair quarterbacking about it.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Sure. When you starve people, they lap up scraps. You don't need to starve people, though. You can give them more than just scraps and still leave them hungry for more.

Your emotionally loaded language here doesn't help your case. And it is also kind of insulting to the fans, suggesting that they are so slavish that they couldn't look to another game if the quality of offering weren't good.

I recognize you aren't getting what you want. But being disrespectful to everyone else is not a valid solution to that. Please tone down the rhetoric.
 

Mistwell

Legend
The rate of release of hardcover rules books is close to the same in both editions. I'm not looking at page count, but rate of release. If you're going to count stuff that really doesn't push the game as a whole forward, such as settings and adventures, 5e has more settings and bigger adventures. 1e still had a decent number of settings, as well as tons of smaller modules to play.
5e unquestionably has a faster rate of release of hardcover books. I think it only had 13 total hardcover books over 11 years? 5e already has 13 hardcover books in 6 years not including ANY hardcover adventure books, and another 13 hardcover adventure books (not including the upcoming ones during the rest of year 6). 5e also has a ton of smaller modules to play - this is just, again, people ignoring WOTC's publishing of numerous smaller modules on the DMs Guild, like these.

I get it Max, you want more. I don't fault you for wanting more, I am just bugged you won't ever acknowledge the possibility that what you want isn't what most people want for this edition, or that what we have might be the middle ground you don't really want a middle ground but instead want something much closer to 3e's schedule. I think you keep calling it a middle ground because otherwise you'd have to reconsider that first possibly (that what you want might not be what most people want).
 
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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
5e unquestionably has a faster rate of release of hardcover books. I think it only had 13 total hardcover books over 11 years? 5e also has a ton of smaller modules to play - this is just, again, people ignoring WOTC's publishing of numerous smaller modules on the DMs Guild. And no I am not talking about third party support.
Only two that are general rule books. Specialized rules settings and modules don't count for this conversation......as you well know when you responded with the same thing...............................................again. How about you respond to what I'm talking about and not what you want me to have been talking about?
 

Eyes of Nine

Everything's Fine
the big gap for me is magic items
Yeah, I'd love one splat on magic items and cool equipment. Especially story filled; not necessarily with more mechanical benefit per-se.

But this edition seems to be hewing pretty far away from the "must get all the things" way of 3rd and 4th (and PF1) editions.

However, I still want what I want :)
 

I would like to see psionics, setting-specific mechanics (particularly Planescape, Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Dark Sun and Spelljammer), more spells, and rules for using 5e in non-heroic fantasy genres (science-fiction, urban fantasy, modern, low fantasy, etc). The Historical Reference series from 2e was amazing; I'd like to see more stuff like that.

For example. I'm sure other people want other stuff. I could get what I want elsewhere (and have) or make it up of course. I'm just saying I would buy those things if WotC produced them.
Yes but is that because you have bought everything they have put out and it still is not enough or is it that you want them to be producing different stuff to what they are producing.
 

Mistwell

Legend
Only two that are general rule books. Specialized rules settings and modules don't count for this conversation......as you well know when you responded with the same thing...............................................again. How about you respond to what I'm talking about and not what you want me to have been talking about?
5e Hardcovers: PHB, MM, DMG, Volo's, Xanathar's, Modenkainen's, Tasha's are all general use. Sword Coast, Ravnica, Acquisitions Inc, Eberron: Last War, Wildemount, and Theros are all setting books. And then we have 13 hardcover adventure books.

1e Hardcovers: MM, PHB, DMG, Deities and Demigods (which I would call not very general use but let's leave it here anyway), Fiend Folio, MM 2, Unearthed Arcana, Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, Wilderness Survival Guide, Manual of the Planes. The last three we could argue about, but I'd say the remaining three of Oriental Adventures, Dragonlance Adventures, and Greyhawk Adventures are all setting books and/or adventure books.

So in half the time, 5e has more hardcover books than 1e. That is, unquestionably, a faster release schedule. We're at barely 6 years here, to 1e's 11 years.
 

At this point the big gap for me is magic items and spells. I have enough monsters with 3rd party product but I'm not as accepting of 3rd party additional items and spells.

Also I'd like to see some optional advanced combat options in an Unearthed Arcana style supplement.
Now that I think about it magic items seem to be the most obvious gap in the market.

In a way it should be easy. Balance and bloat are not such issues because magic items don't pretend to be balanced and their distribution is entirely in the hands of the GM.

Done well it could also be a way of introducing lots of hooks and adventure seeds as well.
 

tetrasodium

Hero
Supporter
Yeah, I'd love one splat on magic items and cool equipment. Especially story filled; not necessarily with more mechanical benefit per-se.

But this edition seems to be hewing pretty far away from the "must get all the things" way of 3rd and 4th (and PF1) editions.

However, I still want what I want :)
They would need to draw things like body slots & possibly bonus types or create a new system to prevent excessive stacking of effects for that to be worth much of anything. they designed too strongly against something like the magic item compendium being all that useful. The system hinders such a book & wotc doesn't seem willing to adjust it for something like a magic item compendium just as how it ensures that most spells will go unused by design as @Don Durito noted. They are willing to add spells but not correct the design sins like "intentionally overtuned" spells you should just embrace (you gm/player, not wotc), the massive & often senseless overuse of concentration, or the desire to stop making spells that are almost good if not for these individual things that combine to make the spell a poor choice to prep in every or nearly situation it should shine.
 

Yes but is that because you have bought everything they have put out and it still is not enough or is it that you want them to be producing different stuff to what they are producing.
Mostly I want different stuff, but I have bought everything they put out (or plan to eventually; I still don't have Descent Into Avernus).
 


Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
5e Hardcovers: PHB, MM, DMG, Volo's, Xanathar's, Modenkainen's, Tasha's are all general use.
The PHB, DMG and MM don't count. Those are core for every edition. They aren't anything extra. Monster books are also not rulebooks. They add very little in the way of rules.

There are two general rulebooks. Tasha's and Xanathar's.
1e Hardcovers: MM, PHB, DMG, Deities and Demigods (which I would call not very general use but let's leave it here anyway), Fiend Folio, MM 2, Unearthed Arcana, Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, Wilderness Survival Guide, Manual of the Planes. The last three we could argue about, but I'd say the remaining three of Oriental Adventures, Dragonlance Adventures, and Greyhawk Adventures are all setting books and/or adventure books.
You do know that I'm arguing that 1e was slow as well, right? Proving that 1e was also slow just proves my point.
 

Mistwell

Legend
The PHB, DMG and MM don't count. Those are core for every edition.

I counted the same three books for both editions. And since we both agree the Monster Manual is a core rulebook, expansions on it are rulebooks.
They aren't anything extra. Monster books are also not rulebooks. They add very little in the way of rules.
Monster books are rulebooks. By any definition of that term, they are rulebooks. On what planet is expanding on one of the three core rulebooks (the monster manual) not a rulebook? Plus both Modenkainen's and Volo's have a lot more than just additional monsters in them. They are both full of additional rules. Are you seriously arguing that, for example, the new player subraces and races in Modenkainen's are not rules? That the new player races in Volo's are not rules?

There are two general rulebooks. Tasha's and Xanathar's.
By that definition, I think 1e had one "general rulebook". Are you seriously arguing the MM2 is not a general rulebook for 1e but the MM is a core rulebook? This is nonsense Max. If classes are rules (from PHB) then books which expand classes are rulebooks. If monsters are rules (from MM) then books which expand on monsters are rulebooks. Come on, you don't get to redefine this stuff to your own personal preferences and then claim you're right. There is no escaping that monsters are rules given it's a core book devoted to that topic. And it's a high demand product by the way as well, in all editions.

Plus, again, both Volo's and Modenkainen's have more than just additional monsters in them. They are full of more rules on different topics. Just not the ones you wanted apparently.

You do know that I'm arguing that 1e was slow as well, right? Proving that 1e was also slow just proves my point.
I am arguing 1e was slow and 3e was fast and 5e is the middle ground between 1e and 3e. If 5e has double the number of hardback books of 1e in half the time, that's definitely not the same speed, right?
 
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Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Only two that are general rule books. Specialized rules settings and modules don't count for this conversation......as you well know when you responded with the same thing...............................................again. How about you respond to what I'm talking about and not what you want me to have been talking about?

I mean, I clearly see that you want more books like Tasha's/Xanathar's (and you're not alone there, they are probably the best-selling books after the core rules), but that doesn't mean they're the ONLY rules that exist, and that rules that are in books that contain other things like adventures/fluff are entirely irrelevant.

I saw your criticism of the Eberron book earlier, in that you'll never run your game there. I mean, so what? The book has a ton of rules (and I consider monsters an extension of the rules) and you can use them in your own homebrew game.

Or Ghosts of Saltmarsh, which is part adventure but also provides rules for ships, maps, tables and other content to support a seafaring game. You don't have to use the adventure, that's all useful stuff for a homebrew game.
 

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