D&D, Technology, and Planned Obsolescence

[Vascant]

I would classify what happened as far as gamers are concerned when they made the switched to 4e, no longer using OGL and creating the GSL as a mini revolt. They lost a lot of 3rd party support for the new edition and with it, customers as well. (Not even going to dare assume how many or any numbers because no one knows).

I can just imagine the what if the next edition has a license that states basically, when we say you are done playing this edition it ends. I dare say it won't be pretty and could be a PR nightmare.

I have learned to never discount anything from happening though, after all this is merely my hobby and clearly their business. Two very different points of view and goals.

 

[wingsandsword]

I'm not sure I made my point well enough here. W&S said "Fortunately, the OGL & SRD's guarantee that the 3.x iteration of D&D will be around pretty much forever", to which my answer is, the fact that it's OGL vs. simply out-of-print is irrelevant if the level of actual support for the system is the same... i.e. zero. Red Box basic will be around "pretty much forever" as well, in the form of used editions on eBay and scanned/OCR'd rips on file-sharing sites, as will 4E, which will remain a perfectly usable system even after the Compendium and the Character Builder are off-line.

The funny thing about the OGL and 3.x is that it makes it's immortality perfectly legal. No need for pirated OCR'd files or photocopies. If somebody wants to join a 3.5 game they don't need to hunt down an out-of-print book at a FLGS used pile, on eBay, or on pirate sites. They can get a copy of the SRD perfectly legally. There is absolutely nothing to stop a gaming group from making their own handbooks from the SRD and house rules and make it into a nice PDF they can give away for free or put up for legal download. Even with no future support, there is enough open materials to run countless games, not to mention the many published adventure paths and adventures.

I am talking about being around forever, perfectly legally and above the board, not on pirate sites or the secondary market. That's a special kind of immortality that 3.0 and 3.5 will have that nothing before had, and nothing after will probably ever have.

 

[Umbran]

The funny thing about the OGL and 3.x is that it makes it's immortality perfectly legal.

Just to be clear, though, legality does not ensure availability. Right now, you can go to d20srd.org, and everything is there at your fingertips.

But, someone is paying to support that site. When they stop paying the site goes away. You may think it unlikely, but it is possible that, some day in the future, you'll look around, and nobody will be hosting such a site. The fans who had the wherewithal and desire may have slipped away into history, and the companies that support their websites dissolved, their servers decommissioned, the date backed up somewhere and stowed in a vault, not served up to the public.

Do remember, the thing we think of as "the internet" where we imagine all data is always available with a few keystrokes in Google is only a few decades old. That's a short time to consider it a basis for immortality. Real immortality comes when you are so super-awesome that someone always thinks to transport you to the new medium that comes along. Shakespeare's plays seem to be immortal (or some of them, anyway). OGL D&D? I dunno.

 

[Vascant]

There is absolutely nothing to stop a gaming group from making their own handbooks from the SRD and house rules and make it into a nice PDF

This is exactly what we have done. I will admit when 4e was first released I did buy up a few extra 3.5e PHB but turned out to be kind of a waste since we have done so much work on our own version.

 

[BriarMonkey]

It's worth saying again. If a company expects me to "rent" my RPG, then that company will never see a dime from me.

I want hard-copy books and the ability to play without an electronic tether. This is a social hobby, not me being at work.

 

[prosfilaes]

Just to be clear, though, legality does not ensure availability. Right now, you can go to d20srd.org, and everything is there at your fingertips.

But, someone is paying to support that site. When they stop paying the site goes away.

d20srd.org may go away. drivethrurpg.com is less likely to just suddenly go away, and as long as drivethrurppg.com exists, the marginal cost of keeping materials like that available is minimal.

Do remember, the thing we think of as "the internet" where we imagine all data is always available with a few keystrokes in Google is only a few decades old. That's a short time to consider it a basis for immortality.

Short of nigh-apocalyptic events, we're not going back. It'd be like undoing the printing revolution or recalling all the Model Ts.

Real immortality comes when you are so super-awesome that someone always thinks to transport you to the new medium that comes along. Shakespeare's plays seem to be immortal (or some of them, anyway). OGL D&D? I dunno.

Why do you say OGL D&D? As long as D&D lives, there will be a market for retro material, at least enough to keep PDFs available. When people stop caring about the history of the game, then I wonder if anyone will care about the game at all. The amount of demand it takes to preserve and make available already converted material is negligible to the amount of demand it takes to continue producing new editions of D&D.

Will these books stop being available? I can't see it happening without the death of the whole industry.

 

[Umbran]

d20srd.org may go away. drivethrurpg.com is less likely to just suddenly go away, and as long as drivethrurppg.com exists, the marginal cost of keeping materials like that available is minimal.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about whether you can get it next year. The word was "immortality". When you say that, I start asking about 20, 50, or 100 years or more down the line. Drivethrurpg is a small business, not a proven, enduring human institution.

Short of nigh-apocalyptic events, we're not going back. It'd be like undoing the printing revolution or recalling all the Model Ts.

I think you are missing my point. Not going back doesn't ensure perpetual life of all content ever produced by anyone. As we go forward, you should expect content that few people care about to drop by the wayside, preserved in out of the way corners nobody knows about or can find, if at all.

The printing revolution? Guess what - there's plenty of stuff that was, at one time, printed, that is now completely and utterly lost to mankind, never to be retrieved. Yes, we saved a lot, but a lot of it wasn't preserved. And, a lot of what currently exists isn't available at the touch of a button. We like to tout that the Internet holds all human knowledge and content, but it isn't actually true.

The internet revolution? Guess what, a lot of Geocities sites are gonegonegone, never to be seen again. The internet can and does lose content.

Death and taxes may be sure. The future existence of your favorite game? Not so much.

 

[prosfilaes]

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about whether you can get it next year. The word was "immortality". When you say that, I start asking about 20, 50, or 100 years or more down the line.

I'm not going to argue about 50 years down the line or more; it seems more than was intended. But long-forgotten 30-year-old books like F'deck Fo's Tomb (1981) and Star Explorer (1983) are getting reprinted; if a mere 20 years in the future, such an influential system as 3.5 can't be found in print, I think it'll be because the hobby as a whole has cratered.

 

[Croesus]

I'm not going to argue about 50 years down the line or more; it seems more than was intended. But long-forgotten 30-year-old books like F'deck Fo's Tomb (1981) and Star Explorer (1983) are getting reprinted; if a mere 20 years in the future, such an influential system as 3.5 can't be found in print, I think it'll be because the hobby as a whole has cratered.

Or because the copyright holders withdraw the materal from circulation. Right now, can you legally purchase a PDF of any 3.x WOTC material? Anything they published during the 3.x era? What about PDF's of pre-3.x material?

When WOTC releases a new version of D&D, do you still expect to be able to obtain PDF's of 4E material? DriveThru and other such sites may exist, but they'll still be limited to what the copyright holders allow to be sold.

Bottom line, just because something has been created and sold doesn't mean it will always be available. Part of the reason for this thread is my concern that we are entering a time when material will be less available, not more, due to its digital nature.

 

[prosfilaes]

Or because the copyright holders withdraw the materal from circulation.

Er, that's why we were speaking of the OGL material as being immortal, not the stuff WotC stopped printing.