D&D vs WHFRP

[Ulrick]

So when you hear someone claim to have the definitive story about Warhammer, be suspicious. Warhammer can be many things, but what sets it apart is not exhaustive minutia about how many crops are grown in an acre field or how many many pounds of excrement flow through the sewers of Altdorf each day or a definitive story about what Karl Franz ate or the color of his griffon's eyes, but rather Warhammer is a mood and an atmosphere.

Hope this helps.

Here's my opinion (though strange):

If Dungeons and Dragons is like mainstream American Rock & Roll...the regular stuff you hear on the radio....

...then Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is Rammstein.

 

[howandwhy99]

Our group is currently playing WFRP2. And my next campaign will be WFRP2, but with a somewhat different setting and feel (Pirates of the Caribbean as The Universe mentioned).

I think that from a combat mechanics standpoint, there is not a lot of difference in the level of crunch between D&D and WFRP. One area that I think it does differ is that D&D has quite a few feats that let you "break" the normal combat rules (things like Cleave or Spring Attack). WFRP doesn't really do that much. Almost all the talents modify things within the existing combat mechanics, which I think streamlines things a bit.

The major difference is with character generation, development and advancement. As has been mentioned, the random character generation is very speedy (for a starting character) but offers few choices for the player. In many ways I find this a refreshing break from the way we've played D&D the last few years where you pick every aspect of your character from the ground up (including that we've used Point Buy).

I rather like the "play the hand you're dealt" way things are in WFRP. Yes, your starting career may suck. But it's very gratifying to rise from being a peasant in the street to being a bold knight fighting the forces of chaos. The one thing about that that rubs me somewhat the wrong way is how some random careers are so much better than others it can make one PC very much stronger than another at the outset.

We got around that by making an abreviated list of starting professions that ALL suck. Nobody starts out as a Noble, Soldier or Mercenary in our games. EVERYBODY is a lowly career to start with. Our starting party was a Tradesman, a Vagabond, a Messenger and an Agitator. I just rolled up a new character and my starting career choices were Tradesman and Charcoal Burner.

I find this grittiness to be fun because how often is your group really challenged by a pair of goblins? When was the last time that an ordinary spear was viewed as a valuable treasure? Granted this condition doesn't persist all that long into the game but still, the slow power curve assures that the challenges you face will be things that you're blowing through by 5th level in D&D.

And speaking of treasure, it's only but so important in WFRP. Yeah, it's nice to have money and you surely won't have much to start with. But once you DO have it, what will you buy? Your equipment can only be upgraded but so much. You can get the equivalent of a Masterwork sword or shield. You might even get a runemage to ensorcel your breastplate. But you certainly aren't buying Ioun Stones and +4 Flaming Longswords.

What becomes more important in WFRP is who you are. What deeds have you accomplished? Who have you helped or harmed? Prestige and gifts of a ceremonial nature are just as prevalent as your armor and weapons.

I think it's the difference in power level, advancement rate and backdrop that most sets WFRP apart from standard D&D. I have enjoyed the switch. But that is not to say that I would never go back to playing D&D by any means.

This actually sounds a lot like what we play when we're not playing 3E D&D. I'd say what you are describing is more like D&D than not. Setting was never dictated by D&D rules.

 

[Pants]

*Reads RJS' fantastic post*

Yep, never going to be able to get my players into it.

I'll try, by God, sometime early next year, though.

I'll play.

My new RPG goal is to buy the WHFRP book and get my players into it. Hopefully, when this campaign wraps up, I'll be able to do just that.

Hopefully.

 

[Henry]

...then Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is Rammstein.

And in fact, Rammstein sounds a lot like it ought to be playing subtly in the background in a Warhammer session. Gives you that light touch of "I'm screwed" without hitting you over the head with it.

 

[kengar]

One thing I've found in WFRP is that people will often mention the idea that "this career sucks" or "that career is SO much better" but I've found that to be a non-issue. The problem is most people are judging careers by combat standards, and the fact is, you simply don't want to get into fights all that often in WFRP. Sure it's nice to be able to kick a$$, but that artisan or ferryman has skills and abilities that can come in handy as well. WFRP is very much like CoC, where most adventures are mysteries, not crawls. NTM no one -not even wizards and knights- can feel totally comfortable going into a real fight. Bad stuff happens in combat, and it's all too easy for Ulric's Fury to open a can of whoop a$$ on your oh-so-tough-PC. It's also worth mentioning that -if it comes to it- there is stuff out there (monster-wise) that NO ONE is going to beat in a fight. I mean noooooobody.

 

[Rel]

One thing I've found in WFRP is that people will often mention the idea that "this career sucks" or "that career is SO much better" but I've found that to be a non-issue. The problem is most people are judging careers by combat standards, and the fact is, you simply don't want to get into fights all that often in WFRP. Sure it's nice to be able to kick a$$, but that artisan or ferryman has skills and abilities that can come in handy as well. WFRP is very much like CoC, where most adventures are mysteries, not crawls. NTM no one -not even wizards and knights- can feel totally comfortable going into a real fight. Bad stuff happens in combat, and it's all too easy for Ulric's Fury to open a can of whoop a$$ on your oh-so-tough-PC. It's also worth mentioning that -if it comes to it- there is stuff out there (monster-wise) that NO ONE is going to beat in a fight. I mean noooooobody.

As with most things in most games I think this is going to vary from game to game. In the campaign we're playing right now, the entire first half of the campaign was wall to wall fighting.

We started off as gold prospectors in the wasteland who got caught in the middle of a greenskin invasion and had to fight our way to Karak Azgal. Once there we were nearly penniless and delved into the vaults beneath the city to seek our fortunes. Except for occasionally surfacing for food, buying new Healing Draughts and Good Luck Charms and selling off loot, we spent a good dozen sessions basically dungeon crawling.

And we got pretty darned good at it too. We learned a LOT about how to survive the potentially nasty combat system by holding formations, using choke points to control how many bad guys can attack us, keeping our shields at the ready and piling on the armor to soak as much incoming damage as possible. That said, many a Fate Point was spent in the depths of Karak Azgal I can tell you! But we managed to earn one back as well by defeating a BBEG who had been lurking around for a few hundred years.

We've seen a 75% turnover in the party since then but 2/3 of that has been because of voluntarily retired characters rather than PC deaths. And we are still eager to get into a fight that we think we can win.

None of that means that we don't use a lot of our other skills though. Perception is ALWAYS going to come up and there has been quite a bit of Navigation, Outdoor Survival and a whole host of Fellowship skills used in the current plot arc.

 

[mhensley]

We started off as gold prospectors in the wasteland who got caught in the middle of a greenskin invasion and had to fight our way to Karak Azgal.

That sounds like a great type of game to me. Personally, one of the things that puts me off of WFRP is the overabundance of chaos and mystery adventures published for it. Does everything have to include chaos cults or skaven or usually both? I much prefer the Warhammer Quest type of dungeon crawls fighting the gobbos. Of course I can do the same thing in D&D, so that's probably what I will continue to play. I just need to add in some nasty crit tables...

 

[JoeGKushner]

One thing I've found in WFRP is that people will often mention the idea that "this career sucks" or "that career is SO much better" but I've found that to be a non-issue.

It's much less an issue in the 2nd edition. In the first edition, there were careers that sucked in that you just didn't get that many skills (including talents back then.) The new edition made the non-combatants much more useful for everyday things and provides a lot of skill options for all characters so you don't have characters with 2 skills in a starting career travelling with characters with 15 skills.

 

[kengar]

It's much less an issue in the 2nd edition. In the first edition, there were careers that sucked in that you just didn't get that many skills (including talents back then.) The new edition made the non-combatants much more useful for everyday things and provides a lot of skill options for all characters so you don't have characters with 2 skills in a starting career travelling with characters with 15 skills.

Very true. I was referrring to v2 in my post.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

That sounds like a great type of game to me. Personally, one of the things that puts me off of WFRP is the overabundance of chaos and mystery adventures published for it. Does everything have to include chaos cults or skaven or usually both?

Well, orcs and goblins tend to live a long way from civilization, while chaos and skaven are a lot closer to home.

That being said, isn't there some adventure dealing with an old dwarvish mine that's being reopened? Doesn't that mine have some orcs, too?