D&D General D&D without Resource Management

[Lanefan]

Overall I was thinking about feats or boons that were optional but give you extra uses of your class or race thing or activate them at the start of any combat.

Why isn't there an Extra Rage feat in 5e?

I mean a level 20 barbarian has unlimited rages. The playtest gives lets you get all you rages back.

Why couldn't a Barbarian take a feat to get 2 more rages? A monk or sorcerer take a feat to get the ability to charge temporary point they could use only next turn? A paladin getting 1 free level 1 smite every combat.

Maybe because there comes a point where too much is too much?

As we're talking about resource management, the point of these abilities being limited-use is to turn them into manage-able resources and thus force players into having to choose (or guess) when to bust 'em out and when not.

Giving them more (or worse, unlimited) uses of these things only serves to jack up the PCs' power level overall, meaning the opponents then need to be similarly jacked in order to keep up; and off we go in an arms race.

The power level is already more than high enough.

 

[Minigiant]

Maybe because there comes a point where too much is too much?

As we're talking about resource management, the point of these abilities being limited-use is to turn them into manage-able resources and thus force players into having to choose (or guess) when to bust 'em out and when not.

Giving them more (or worse, unlimited) uses of these things only serves to jack up the PCs' power level overall, meaning the opponents then need to be similarly jacked in order to keep up; and off we go in an arms race.

The power level is already more than high enough.

Power level is relative. I never said resource-less D&D would be layered atop of any edition.

A level 6 Paladin has 6 spell slots. 4 1sts and 2 2nds. Enough for 1 smite for each of a 6 encounter day.

If you take away a Paladin's 6 spell slots and say "When you roll Initiative, you get 1 regain use of Divine Smite."... that's still 1 smite per
encounter. Right.


If you take away a Paladin's 6 spell slots and say "A 6th level Paladin deals extra 2 radiant damage once a turn."... that's still equal power to 1 smite per encounter. Right.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Power level is relative. I never said resource-less D&D would be layered atop of any edition.

A level 6 Paladin has 6 spell slots. 4 1sts and 2 2nds. Enough for 1 smite for each of a 6 encounter day.

If you take away a Paladin's 6 spell slots and say "When you roll Initiative, you get 1 regain use of Divine Smite."... that's still 1 smite per
encounter. Right.


If you take away a Paladin's 6 spell slots and say "A 6th level Paladin deals extra 2 radiant damage once a turn."... that's still equal power to 1 smite per encounter. Right.

That could work, but you have to admit that at that point you are asking for a different game. Might be better just to fibd or make one.

 

[Voadam]

That could work, but you have to admit that at that point you are asking for a different game. Might be better just to fibd or make one.

House rules are usually really easy to add in most every edition of D&D. I played in a 4e game where we mostly replaced the dailies of AEDU and it was fantastic.

The 5e DMG has (minimal ) advice on lots of variants such as changing a short rest down to a quick breather or upping it to a full night's rest.

 

[Quickleaf]

@Minigiant @Reynard
I come at the resource management question from a slightly different perspective than the gameplay focus.

I think there's a CREATIVE purpose – beyond the mechanical purpose – that is behind limiting Wild Shape or other powers. It encourages players to use different strategies rather than relying on one thing.

Now, that doesn’t always work in all cases – I'd say it is unevenly applied in the game. And it’s “negative”/gameplay reinforcement rather than “positive”/story reinforcement (which would be “this scenario encourages me to delve deeper into my toolbox to work around some limit/challenge”). But it is one effect of saying a druid can only Wild Shape # number of times.

I don't think this is the ONLY way to accomplish encouraging creative strategies. A well thought out scenario goes a long way. And I'm sure you could create a system (maybe "action slots") that would encourage using different strategies. But this is one benefit of the current resource management approach to character abilities/spells.

 

[Reynard]

@Minigiant @Reynard
I come at the resource management question from a slightly different perspective than the gameplay focus.

I think there's a CREATIVE purpose – beyond the mechanical purpose – that is behind limiting Wild Shape or other powers. It encourages players to use different strategies rather than relying on one thing.

Now, that doesn’t always work in all cases – I'd say it is unevenly applied in the game. And it’s “negative”/gameplay reinforcement rather than “positive”/story reinforcement (which would be “this scenario encourages me to delve deeper into my toolbox to work around some limit/challenge”). But it is one effect of saying a druid can only Wild Shape # number of times.

I don't think this is the ONLY way to accomplish encouraging creative strategies. A well thought out scenario goes a long way. And I'm sure you could create a system (maybe "action slots") that would encourage using different strategies. But this is one benefit of the current resource management approach to character abilities/spells.

In my experience, it is far more common for players whose characters can no longer do their cool signature thing(s) to complain and angle for a rest rather than enjoy a burst of creative problem solving energy.

 

[overgeeked]

Would it be more fun? Would it take the spice out of the aspects that used resources

It's all about pacing and spotlight. If everyone has limited resources then they have limited spotlight time and the pace is slower. If everyone has unlimited resources then they have unlimited spotlight time and the pace is faster. It just depends on the table's preferred style of play. Some things are wildly unbalanced if they were unlimited, like say unlimited wish they'd either need to be tweaked heavily or outright banned in unlimited resource play.

You could also do a variant of Epic5 and basically get to unlimited resources. Short rests are a free action. You can only take 2 short rests per long rest. Long rests take 5 minutes. Then balance fights around that. It can be a lot of fun and definitely feels like superhero fantasy.

 

[jmartkdr2]

No BUT I would be very interested in a fantasy game that was built from the ground up to not really care about encounters per day. I just don't think you can do that by hacking DnD.

 

[overgeeked]

No BUT I would be very interested in a fantasy game that was built from the ground up to not really care about encounters per day. I just don't think you can do that by hacking DnD.

Have I got news for you.

 

[jgsugden]

Sure, but there are other ways to change this behavior, both carrots and sticks. Repeated actions might invoke a penalty, for example, or characters might build up bonuses by variation.

That would require you to track your uses - and the point here was to avoid resource management.

Alternatively, you could create a stunt system that allows players to do different things, but make repeating a stunt the lesser option.

Again, tracking the number of uses would be resource tracking.

There are lots of ways to design these things. Per encounter is a fine way to do it, if that is the way you want to go, but it has the possibility of becoming a slog if fights go too long and suddenly everyone is stuck using their "at will" abilities. (This of course is a pacing problem and one a GM could solve by creating alternatives goals and stakes in encounters.)

DMs are half the equation, bu the players form the other half and will often go in directions the DM does not want, encourage or support. Pesky free willed players!

I find that a weaker or highly specialized (limited use case) at will options to be fine ... but imposing a resource management requirement in order to encourage diversity of play is the best path I've seen. In fact, I wish they went back to a more Vancian wizard design where the wizard had more spell slots per level than other classes, but had to specify which spells were going to be used in which slot at the end of their long rest. "I prepare three shields, two magic missiles and a charm person in my 6 first level slots". That encourages wizards to be more versatile and creative in their spell selection.