D&Detox

[GMMichael]

I'm running a non-D&D online game with a couple of seats open for drop-in players (Roll20), and I'm finding that some players can't quite wrap their heads around a non-D&D rule set. It's more of an issue when play wanders away from role-play and into rules-dense territory, like combat.

If you've GMed other bloodlines of games, like Fate or Dungeon World (or Amber?), how did you help players break out of the D&D mindset?

If you've learned a non-d20-style game as a PC while coming from a D&D background, did you have trouble avoiding old habits? What did you do to overcome them?

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I have never experienced it taking more than "This game is not like D&D, so play will be different, but I will gladly help you learn as we go." just like I've never had it take more than that to teach someone D&D (or any other game) in the first place.

 

[Morrus]

I assume they've played other (non-RPG) games other than D&D? Just tell them if they can do that, they can play Fate or whatever. Have they played a boardgame before?

 

[Scott Christian]

I've been lucky enough to learn other games with other players that are also new to the game. So it was a learning curve. But, the expectation was there that it will not be exactly like D&D. I have taught others games that I know to novice players, and most of the time it's just patience that sees them through the rocky patches. At least in my experience.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I watched this happen with my group. They’re all long time players. They’ve all played multiple games, but primarily D&D and some other games that are similarly structured.

The thing is that they’re really really experienced with D&D. So a game that adjusts the normal flow of play, the normal narrative responsibility and so forth, shows how specialized they are.

We played a year long campaign of Blades in the Dark. The first few sessions I kept very simple and straightforward. I introduced new game elements slowly, a bit at a time rather than all at once. I let them adjust to each new element to get a basic understanding and I kept reminding them of differences as they came up in play.

I think I’d suggest the same. Start off slowly, let them get used to things at their own pace, and don’t be afraid to offer suggestions and remind them of differences.

It took us a few sessions for things to work the way the game expects and for the players to really grasp the bulk of it. But it wasn’t long until they were taking charge and using flashbacks and all the other elements of Blades that makes it different from D&D.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

With any new rules system (and I did this for 5e when it came out), I generally take a page from videogames and have an introductory "level" section of the adventure. That is to say, a low-risk section that demos the important rules and helps them familiarize themselves with it. Think of the training course section of Half-Life, for example, or more recently, the beginning of God of War.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

If you've learned a non-d20-style game as a PC while coming from a D&D background, did you have trouble avoiding old habits? What did you do to overcome them?

Only users lose drugs.

 

[Umbran]

The thing is that they’re really really experienced with D&D. So a game that adjusts the normal flow of play, the normal narrative responsibility and so forth, shows how specialized they are.

Narrative responsibility changes can often be hard to make for a long-time D&D player - D&D gives the player very narrow narrative responsibilities, as compared to, say, Fate. It can pay off to introduce these slowly, or to find games that are only smaller steps away from D&D in narrative responsibility.

Others have noted introductory scenarios (hooray, Stuffer Shack!), and introducing new concepts slowly - I second both of those ideas.

 

[GMMichael]

I assume they've played other (non-RPG) games other than D&D? Just tell them if they can do that, they can play Fate or whatever. Have they played a boardgame before?

I'm not sure that boardgame experience would help. . .

I generally take a page from videogames and have an introductory "level" section of the adventure. . .Think of the training course section of Half-Life, for example, or more recently, the beginning of God of War.

. . . because the problem is too insidious for the suggested fix* of "this is how you do it." To use the video game analogy, it would be like having someone jump into your real-time Elder Scrolls Online game, who had only played turn-based Final Fantasy games in the past. The player takes her time carefully plotting how her characters are going to attack and meanwhile, slaughter ensues. (Or more accurately, a Call of Duty player using CoD tactics in Arma!)

More concrete (and personal): Dungeon World characters operate in "moves." First, there's a nomenclature problem, because a D&D "move" is actually changing position, and it tends to require a grid for representation. Second, a DW move is an opportunity for the player to do some narrating, which doesn't seem to happen in D&D (to the extent that it does in Fate or DW). So you can tell a new DW player what a move is, but it goes against everything they know about moves.

*But I do like the element-by-element introduction approach.

 

[Morrus]

I'm not sure that boardgame experience would help. . .

I don’t see why not. It’s just a different rules structure. If you can switch between board games and learn new rules, I reckon you can probably switch between RPGs.