D&D General D&D's Evolution: Rulings, Rules, and "System Matters"

Thomas Shey

Legend
To put a more specific point on this, I own a game I have never played (was never able to get a group) called OVA. In reading the rules I saw one or two abilities that could be heavily exploited to make insanely powerful characters. The game had a forum, and I went there to make sure I hadn't misunderstood the abilities.

The designer told me they were aware, but didn't consider a problem because we could just ask players not to exploit the rules for their own gain.

Very different gaming culture compared to what I'm used to here.

Yup. I saw some of this same sort of thing in the playtest for Silver Age Sentinels back in the day, where the designer's tendency to ad-hoc things personally colored how much he cared about vagueness in the rules, too.

But it can have even more subtle impact than that; the classic that's relevant here is how much some of the D&D 3e designers expected people to run games with it like they were playing 2e, rather than like what it seemed to imply mechanically, and then were startled (and misfired in some of their early adventures) when they didn't.
 

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EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Yup. I saw some of this same sort of thing in the playtest for Silver Age Sentinels back in the day, where the designer's tendency to ad-hoc things personally colored how much he cared about vagueness in the rules, too.

But it can have even more subtle impact than that; the classic that's relevant here is how much some of the D&D 3e designers expected people to run games with it like they were playing 2e, rather than like what it seemed to imply mechanically, and then were startled (and misfired in some of their early adventures) when they didn't.
Which is one of the central problems of the "leave it to the table to figure out." Players will naturally read the materials available to them, and while some will always make choices without meaningful regard to their utility, most will at least consider utility as part of making their mechanical choices. It is frankly foolish to expect players to never ever consider the mechanical impact of these choices (in 5e, things like class/subclass and race, spell selection, feats vs ASIs, etc.); even for players that consistently prioritize theme/flavor/concept over utility, there will almost certainly be near-equally-flavorful options at some points, and why would one choose the weaker of the two options if both produce good story of essentially equal quality?

Furthermore, why put players in the frustrating position of having to choose between what is flavorful and what is effective and leaving the balance cleanup job to the DM? Flavor and effectiveness, despite claims to the contrary, are not mutually exclusive. Why not design so that, at least in most reasonably-expectable cases, things just work pretty well and do what they say on the tin, so that DMs only really have to worry about weird edge cases? It's not like D&D games are actually THAT weird and out of left field. We have a pretty good idea of what most people want out of D&D. Despite the lofty "you can do ANYTHING" rhetoric from many folks, tradition runs rather strong. Players tend to embrace certain kinds of novelty more than DMs, even when mechanically disadvantaged, e.g. Dragonborn have steadily grown in popularity over time (according to the D&D Beyond they've recently risen to 3rd, surpassing Tiefling for the first time in 2020, behind only Half-Elf and Human.) But semi-heroic, semi-comedic adventures in a pseudo-medieval faux-European henotheistic setting, where characters embark on "quests" (usually into dangerous wilderness, ruins, or underground locations) to recover/extract treasure/resources/people, save the day/stop a bad thing, or complete a contract forms the basic structure for the vast majority of play experiences. There will be combat, exploration at both large scales (overland) and small ones (individual rooms/spots), interactions with other sapient beings that do not need to end in violence, and lots of problems solved either by using a spell designed to solve that problem or by applying resources (magical or otherwise) to get through it. Both thematically and mechanically, these are pretty easily defined goals. Now, obviously some things will push boundaries, but the above is quite comprehensive despite this fact, and it isn't too hard to make rule-frameworks that are open-ended enough to encompass almost anything one might do in these spaces. On the thematic side, there have already been many settings that play with or reject parts of the established formula to one extent or another (Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Eberron, Planescape, Dragonlance, etc.), so all we really need do is give light-touch thematic support for the most common representation, followed by advice (ideally for both DMs and players, but definitely at least the former) on how to curate the thematics for different goals. E.g., a world where the only spellcasters are Paladins, Druids, Warlocks, and Artificers is going to feel different from one where no one can cast spells at all without becoming corrupted monsters unless blessed by the gods (but there are workarounds like Monk's ki). Or, a world without elves and dwarves, where the great ancient kingdoms were decadent but brilliant tieflings and industrious dragonborn bound by a rigid caste system. Or one where the only playable races are gnomes, halflings, kobolds, tengu, and other "small" races, as the Tall Ones died out long ago. Or any of a million other variations on deities/the sacred, the nature and prevalence of magic, what species/classes exist to play, and the overall technological development and societal structure present. This need only be a few pages at most--evocative suggestions and general guidance, for new DMs looking for that spark of inspiration.

...this kinda got away from me. Whole point is, I reject the notion that leaving known metaphorical holes or oversights in the rules is necessary for giving DMs the leeway to adjust things to suit their interests. I reject the notion that it is necessary (to say nothing of good!) to make players choose between mechanical competence and flavor/story/theme. And I reject the notion that D&D is, in practice, too diverse and open-ended to be designed reasonably well "off the shelf" for the vast majority of use-cases.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
Well, honestly, my answer to that, as to a lot of related things, is when you insist on making every damn thing exception driven in design you're asking for this kind of problem, but I know I'm pretty much an old man shouting at clouds talking about that on a D&D-centric board.
 


Jay Murphy1

Meterion, Mastermind of Time !
If the novel writing is so much more difficult, why are 16 years old and younger still doing it? The entire point was that you can't dismiss the efforts of professionals because of extraordinary young people.



Yes



Yes



I agree, even though I consider both attempts a failure, the RPG writing was vastly more difficult. In the novel I just had to tell a good story, my major downfall was motivation and trying to get the entire novel in my head at the same time, something it seems my writing is ill-suited for as I have been finding much greater success in a different format. With the RPG we had to consider many many different factors of balance, math, growth, tone, statistical averages, story, setting, historical events, ect ect. It was a massive and overwhelming project.



And? Christopher Paoloni and Gordon Korman had numerous examples of novels to use as models too. Again, do you find that writers should not be considered to have a profession just because young people made highly successful novels? Do you think that the skill level is so low that you could do better than the 16 year old who made a system that penetrated the market to a degree that you are talking about it now as a counter to Dungeon and Dragons?

I don't make a policy of downplaying the successes of others, I find it much more appropriate to celebrate those successes.
You do you.
 



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