D&D's Obelisk Plotline Was Supposed to Be Resolved in Vecna: Eve of Ruin

Chris Perkins has revealed that the obelisks scattered throughout various 5E adventures published by Wizards of the Coast was originally supposed to play a central role in the Vecna: Eve of Ruin adventure capping off Fifth Edition. Many Dungeons & Dragons adventures published for Fifth Edition featured mysterious black obelisks. These obelisks were revealed to be capable of time-travel and were tied to a mysterious group called the Weavers as well as the Netherese Empire. In Rime of the Frostmaiden, it was revealed that Vecna had obtained one of these obelisks and it was hinted that Vecna would use the obelisks in his plot to rewrite all of reality.

Vecna's possession of an obelisk was never followed up on, but it was apparently supposed to be a plot point in Vecna: Eve of Ruin. In a recent interview with Polygon, Perkins provided his vision for Vecna: Eve of Ruin. "The original plan, in my mind, was that we would actually culminate the story by going back in time to fight the Netherese Empire,” Perkins said. “It was always on our radar to bring Netheril back in some way. And this was the way I envisioned it happening, because the only way you could really fight Netheril again is to travel back in time."

“I was excited about the idea of a time travel adventure,” Perkins said later in the interview, “simply because it would feel very different from the other campaigns we had done up to that point. And I thought given time and attention, we could do some really fun things with Netheril and explore a style of magic that felt different from contemporary magic. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks would be sort of like the vibe I'd go for, where the magic is so weird it almost feels technological.”

Unfortunately, plans changed when Perkins' role at Wizards of the Coast shifted in his latter years with the company. “The reason it was dropped was that different people were in charge of the adventure design,” Perkins said. “I had rolled off a lot of my hands-on product work to help out with other parts of the business. And so, when I creatively walked away from the day-to-day adventure creation, we sort of lost the plot.”

Polygon has been periodically publishing interviews with Perkins, including an introspective on Rime of the Frostmaiden, and some insight on 5E's adventure design.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

I find starting from scratch to be infinitely easier, especially for a home campaign. That doesn't mean I won't use modules as a resource, but acting making whatever WotC decided to do workable with my collection of misfits is juice not worth the squeeze.

I generally prefer to have foundation I can build from, different strokes for different people.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

That may be true for most liches, but early references to Vecna and Kas suggest he ruled over some domain at the height of his power. So having this particular lich/demigod be out there a bit more would certainly be in character.

Fair, but then I come back to the whole "god of secrets" thing in that case.

 

[Artamo]

I don't know. A god of secrets shouldn't be focused on hitting the big red reset button on the multiverse as his main aim. He should be about secrets, including digging them up, securing them for himself and killing anyone else who knows them. Maybe one of those secrets is resetting the multiverse, but the dude has to come up with a whole second thing he cares about.

I think the way to make a Vecna-based adventure would be to have him and his servants be part of the background of a whole campaign, with the players only slowly figuring out who the conspiracy is run by. And, by its very nature, Vecna's involvement should be a surprise even to most of his servants, which rules out Hand for a Head Guy and Eyeball for a Head Guy. Maybe instead, everyone thinks they're serving a totally different god and late in the game, the PCs discover that god has been dead for centuries and someone else has been the benefactor of their cult instead.

If the goal is to eventually take on Vecna, this would probably need to be a two-book adventure campaign, with a low level conspiracy being behind the obvious threat and the second one being about taking on that conspiracy and discovering multiple levels of secrets.

I think those are good points. I don’t really consider Vecna to have much personality at all. The mythology of his artifacts is what made him interesting - not the NPC himself, and largely because of none of it has anything to do with his supposed domain: secrets. If you told me was Azalin or Acererak, I don’t think anything would change in most adventures.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think those are good points. I don’t really consider Vecna to have much personality at all. The mythology of his artifacts is what made him interesting - not the NPC himself, and largely because of none of it has anything to do with his supposed domain: secrets. If you told me was Azalin or Acererak, I don’t think anything would change in most adventures.

Yeah, the next time they reach into the toy box, figuring out what makes those three different from one another, beyond one being trapped in Ravenloft, would be a good idea.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

Fair, but then I come back to the whole "god of secrets" thing in that case.

But he never really did anything relating to that title as a god, in any of his adventures

1. Vecna LIVES! - he wants to remove all other Gods' connection to Oerth so he is only god to be worshipped
2. Vecna REBORN! - he wants to escape Domains of Dread.
3. Die, Vecna, DIE! (German: The, Vecna, The!): he wants to remake entire multiverse in his image.

Yeah, the next time they reach into the toy box, figuring out what makes those three different from one another, beyond one being trapped in Ravenloft, would be a good idea.

Acererak is a genre-savvy troll that exploits the mindset of very adventurers trying to stop him for both powers and for laughs. Vecna is the pinnacle of Lichdom, scheming god of insantiatable ambitions. Azain is a bitter ord jerk that beefs with anyone and everyone he ever meet. Szass Tam is a petty, backstabbing tyrant that betrayed his way to being a dictator. Brannart McGregor is Scottish.

 

[Seramus]

But he never really did anything relating to that title as a god, in any of his adventures

1. Vecna LIVES! - he wants to remove all other Gods' connection to Oerth so he is only god to be worshipped
2. Vecna REBORN! - he wants to escape Domains of Dread.
3. Die, Vecna, DIE! (German: The, Vecna, The!): he wants to remake entire multiverse in his image.

Acererak is a genre-savvy troll that exploits the mindset of very adventurers trying to stop him for both powers and for laughs. Vecna is the pinnacle of Lichdom, scheming god of insantiatable ambitions. Azain is a bitter ord jerk that beefs with anyone and everyone he ever meet. Szass Tam is a petty, backstabbing tyrant that betrayed his way to being a dictator. Brannart McGregor is Scottish.

100% agreed. Vecna has almost nothing to do with secrets, and it was strange he became the God of Secrets. He's always been rather flashy, and has more in common with someone like Xykon than Larloch.

You  could say his artifacts spy on people, or he was  told secrets by a greater entity, but secrets as an idea was never his thing until after he became a god and they tried to justify it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Acererak is a genre-savvy troll that exploits the mindset of very adventurers trying to stop him for both powers and for laughs. Vecna is the pinnacle of Lichdom, scheming god of insantiatable ambitions. Azain is a bitter ord jerk that beefs with anyone and everyone he ever meet. Szass Tam is a petty, backstabbing tyrant that betrayed his way to being a dictator. Brannart McGregor is Scottish.

In what way is Vecna the pinnacle of lichdom? Most modules named after him?

Only Szass Tam actually has any goals or personality other than "generic powerful lich." (I don't know McGregor.)

 

[Clint_L]

From Polygon back in May 2024:

"What fans can have is a triumphant multi-chapter climax that puts the players at the forefront of a demonic war with thousands of frantic combatants....These final few battles, including one that is the result of a very personal betrayal, are a fitting end for the most successful edition in D&D history."

"In this way the campaign closes the door on the incredibly popular, decade-long run of 5th edition."

It got their massive 900 pixel in diameter "seal of approval".

Polygon today.

"Rather than 5e’s crowning achievement, Vecna: Eve of Ruin wound up becoming its biggest disappointment."

Tells you a lot about the state of reviews.

To be fair, when I first got the adventure I really liked it. Then I ran it.

 

[tetrasodium]

In what way is Vecna the pinnacle of lichdom? Most modules named after him?

Only Szass Tam actually has any goals or personality other than "generic powerful lich." (I don't know McGregor.)

Lady Vol is a half dragon half elf with a goal. That goal is unwinding Daddy's conversion of her to lich and back to living or reactivating her dragonmark while still a lich
At least she has an understandable goal

 

[Seramus]

In what way is Vecna the pinnacle of lichdom? Most modules named after him?

Only Szass Tam actually has any goals or personality other than "generic powerful lich." (I don't know McGregor.)

Hard to say. Mostly just because he shows up for work on the regular and gets foiled. He has lots of face time, and that lets him win popularity contests. There's nothing he specifically does that is more lichy than any other lich.

If anything, I would say Larloch is the pinnacle of Lichdom, if only because he's that classic puppet master archetype. But that's just my idea of what a lich should be like when I think of the word, not some objective fact.