D&D's Obelisk Plotline Was Supposed to Be Resolved in Vecna: Eve of Ruin

Chris Perkins has revealed that the obelisks scattered throughout various 5E adventures published by Wizards of the Coast was originally supposed to play a central role in the Vecna: Eve of Ruin adventure capping off Fifth Edition. Many Dungeons & Dragons adventures published for Fifth Edition featured mysterious black obelisks. These obelisks were revealed to be capable of time-travel and were tied to a mysterious group called the Weavers as well as the Netherese Empire. In Rime of the Frostmaiden, it was revealed that Vecna had obtained one of these obelisks and it was hinted that Vecna would use the obelisks in his plot to rewrite all of reality.

Vecna's possession of an obelisk was never followed up on, but it was apparently supposed to be a plot point in Vecna: Eve of Ruin. In a recent interview with Polygon, Perkins provided his vision for Vecna: Eve of Ruin. "The original plan, in my mind, was that we would actually culminate the story by going back in time to fight the Netherese Empire,” Perkins said. “It was always on our radar to bring Netheril back in some way. And this was the way I envisioned it happening, because the only way you could really fight Netheril again is to travel back in time."

“I was excited about the idea of a time travel adventure,” Perkins said later in the interview, “simply because it would feel very different from the other campaigns we had done up to that point. And I thought given time and attention, we could do some really fun things with Netheril and explore a style of magic that felt different from contemporary magic. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks would be sort of like the vibe I'd go for, where the magic is so weird it almost feels technological.”

Unfortunately, plans changed when Perkins' role at Wizards of the Coast shifted in his latter years with the company. “The reason it was dropped was that different people were in charge of the adventure design,” Perkins said. “I had rolled off a lot of my hands-on product work to help out with other parts of the business. And so, when I creatively walked away from the day-to-day adventure creation, we sort of lost the plot.”

Polygon has been periodically publishing interviews with Perkins, including an introspective on Rime of the Frostmaiden, and some insight on 5E's adventure design.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think lichdom is less about power and more about immortality. I would think most liches stay hidden in their fortresses or demiplanes, conducting unspeakable magical experiments, and occassionally sending minions out to find subjects for said experiments.

Clone spell does the same thing now.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yep! And slightly before 4E (2007) there was an article that described his Hall of Secrets, which is a place where dark practitioners could research anything they want as long as they tell Vecna what they learn.

So, he essentially became the God of Plagiarism. I can't hold it against him, though, since that's every dark wizard.

His cultists were in the Ebon Triafmd 3E. He was a deity there. Secrets iirc.

 

[SkidAce]

It  is a pretty easy step for any dark wizard. Full stop. And Vecna is  less secretive and more flashy and audacious than most. There are far more sneaky manipulative and secretive liches out there, like Szass Tam and Larloch. Or, heck, even non-secret gods like Bane had a whole Zhentarim spy network.

But what's done is done. Since he has been declared the God of Secrets, we're left to justify it retroactively and hope he acts sneaky in the future.

I see you fell for Vecna's (is that even really his name?) lies and propaganda...muhahahahahaha!

 

[Not a Decepticon]

The idea that D&D needed a big milestone Avengers Doomsday style adventure to celebrate a minor rules revision at all is a terrible one.

As a regular adventure (and sequel to Rime of the Frostmaiden), a Netheril time travel adventure would have been fine.

And now they are in the rules, bastions open up the way to a more grounded high level campaign involving kingdom building and high politics. And that would suit the Greyhawk setting.

I personally hate Bastions and much prefer Strongholds & Followers system, at least it is not openly hostile to DMs and inherently anti-immerssive.

Also, I LIKE multiversal hopping episodic adventure I could run as a sequel to multiple campaigns. As I have said, it tickles my creativity and imagination in a way Netherese time travel story would not. Maybe as a single adventure, not a whole campaign.

Whilst being on TV helps, you can also give a character a personality through writing. But Gygax didn’t write Vecna because he was supposed to be dead with only his hand and eye remaining, and he hasn’t had enough time on screen in adventures, novels or computer games to establish one. Strahd, Soth, Azlin etc have appeared enough to have established characters. He isn’t really in Eve of Ruin either (as a character). He is just a boss monster to fight at the end. No dialogue or interaction with the PCs.

Vecna had three adventures before Eve of Ruin and he shows a lot of personality in them. I would also say Critical Role did more to popularize him than Stranger Things.

For me, those weren’t modules that I have very strong associations with. That’s why I feel Vecna has largely fallen flat. If I was going to pick an “uber” lich, it’d be Acererak, personally due to the popularity of Tomb of Horrors.

And I personally don't want Acererak to be iconic lich because of my negative opinion on that module and my desire we leave it and its awful legacy behind.

It  is a pretty easy step for any dark wizard. Full stop. And Vecna is  less secretive and more flashy and audacious than most. There are far more sneaky manipulative and secretive liches out there, like Szass Tam and Larloch. Or, heck, even non-secret gods like Bane had a whole Zhentarim spy network.

But what's done is done. Since he has been declared the God of Secrets, we're left to justify it retroactively and hope he acts sneaky in the future.

I mean it's not the only time of a widely-understood Power not really acting in adherence with their supposed domain. Just look at Graz'zt, Demon Lord of Lust who never acts lustful.

And, of course, the Vecna ones are specific to him because we have the incredibly dopey hand and eye motifs in Vecna Lives! and then the continuity-based adventures that follow that, although those plans seem to be generic evil bad guy stuff. ("I don't want to be in Ravenloft" and "I want to reshape the multiverse to suit my needs.")

This is similar to generic dragons who want treasure and to kill rivals, which isn't specific to any of them as individuals.

A lot of villains have ambitions that is simply villainous, even your thanos example is not really that unique, since he is basically a superpowered incel in comics and a superpowered right-winger who skimmed through economics book once. Vecna's whole deal is being the most ambitious in his goals in a way other liches aren't - there is honestly no other d&d canon villains who tried to rewrite Multiverse in their image, less alone twice, or with such audacity as he. Tharizdun comes closest with his goal to destroy all of creation, but it's different enough. Not every goal can be boiled down to "get treasure and destroy enemies" and even if they do, there is a lot of versitality in the specifics.

Clone spell does the same thing now.

But lacks the entire "bag of bones held together with dark magic" and "I tore off my own flesh so I wouldn't have to admit weakness" to quote Order of the Stick. To put it other way

Lich: You are an evil wizard allright. But you're not a Lich
Evil Wizard: Yeah? What's the difference?
Lich, getting an entire undead horde and skeletal dragon to back him up: PRESENTATION!

 

[Flying Toaster]

Vecna and, really, all big name D&D villains, deserve that sort of specificity.

The Lich from Adventure Time is an interesting case of a villain who is both generic and specific. He does not even have a real name of his own, just his generic moniker as THE Lich, because he is a cosmic spirit of pure evil older than existence itself, from a time “before there was nothing.”

The Lich cares not for the petty things that motivate most stock villains, even immortal ones. He ignores shiny baubles like money and treasure. He does not crave power over others, or the loyalty or worship of lesser beings. He does not want to dominate this world or any other. He does not revel in sensual pleasures, or obsess over lost loves the way vampires like Dracula or Strahd do. He certainly does not want to spend eternity unlocking the forbidden magical secrets of the universe, the way a classic D&D lich would.

He just wants everything to end, because he hates everything so, so much (possibly including himself?). He embodies pure nihilism in his hatred for existence itself and especially life. His only wish is to destroy everything everywhere and return the entire universe to a state of non-existence.

Like so many villains he describes his eee-vil plans to Our Heroes, and occasionally he will crack a sardonic joke to mock them, but to me that feels like slightly inconsistent characterization leaking in from villain depictions in other media. Most of his villain monologues do not express even negative emotions like cruelty or hatred, they are just matter-of-fact declarations of his relentless, inexorable will. If his plans are temporarily stymied, he goes catatonic and waits patiently for his next opportunity, no matter how long it may take. He is not invincible however, because he is vulnerable to magic weapons and to a variety of positive forces that exist in the Adventure Time universe.

I generally prefer lower stakes in my stories and my games, but if we are going to have cosmic stakes in our games then this is the way to do it. This is the kind of villain that D&D 5E could use, the kind that Big Damn Heroes can defeat, but only if they fight hard and fight smart.