d20 Apocalypse vs. Darwin's World

[Templeton580]

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[Psion]

I don't fully understand what you mean above. Are you saying that the defects are not bad enough to offset the mutation?

I am saying I dislike the very idea of trading disadvantages for advantages up front; this is not something specific to DW in the least bit. It's my experience that players will try to minmax the snot out of disads, even normally even tempered players.

Again, DW has a better take on this than most (both because medical incompatibility is a bit more in their face than the average disad of the sort players squirm around, and because the "pick from a list of 7" option makes it harder to minmax), but I think the approach of making players pay ECL (even if mitigated by a disad) is a bit cleaner.

When it comes to disads, I prefer the idea of disads that give you points when they actually impede you (instead of "theoretically might impede you"), like in RPGObjects Blood & Vigilance and Modern Disadvantages. I know these aren't your babies but Chucks, but just so you know where I am coming from.

But the very fact you include the "two lists of seven" option shows you should understand where I am coming from when talking about minmaxing defects.

 

[Urizen]

I love DW, both First edition (from a purely story standpoint) and Second ed. I think that Dominic Covey and Chris have really set the standard for what a P.A campaign book should entail.

D20 apocalypse, on the other hand, is OK. Nothing incredibly special. Some people may like the mechanics a bit better in D20 Apocalypse. I've always thought of game mechanics as what gets you from point A to point B, so I paid less attention to how well or poorly written the mechanics were and focused on the story elements of the game.

D20 Apocalypse ( In my humble opinion) is bubblegum. The picture of the Demon running down the street with a machine gun in one hand and a sword in the other is a perfect example of this. Why would a demon worth it's name need EITHER of those weapons?

Ok I'm ranting and rambling now, best to shut up.

Oh, if you like DW, take a look at Lost Paradise and Terrors of the Lost Paradise, by RPGobjects.

 

[PosterBoy]

OK, I thought that was what you meant, but wasn't sure. I do know what you mean and as you said, that’s why I created 3 options for GMs to use depending on how ‘shifty’ he’s players want to be.

ECL ‘might’ be cleaner, but I think (and maybe it's psychological) it’s just too unpopular solution for players. It’s a big turn off for them.

When designing DW 2, the ECLs were the #1 ranked thing people wanted changed from DW 1 (where I used them to balance the mutant races). It’s just really hard to sallow if you are starting a game at level 1 to not gain levels for such a long time (depending on the level adjustment).

It’s just a very un-fun concept and rule.

 

[PosterBoy]

Posterboy! What's the status on DW2 reprints?

Sadly, the printer is having some issues. You can see my post here (and on the yahoo list).

http://forums.rpghost.com/showthread.php?t=31359

We are considering doing an OGL version of DW 2 now, where all the relevant rules from the SRD are included. There are some polls and discussion on the topic on the dw yahoo group if you're interested.

 

[Committed Hero]

d20 Apocalypse is both more complete and less complete than Darwin's World. It has to rely on two other core books for some of its rules, and cover several types of post-apocalyptic scenarios. But the rules it contains are good ones (showing that d20 Modern misses Charles Ryan, I submit), and the scenarios it envisions are certainly adequate. Darwin's World had the advantage of being its own, essentially self-contained setting.

The odd book out in this discussion appears to be Gamma World - no love for one of the industry's oldest titles.... :\

 

[ClintforMayor]

Well I’m new to the site and this is my first post. – I’ve been looking threw the apocalypse book and I have to say that I like it. It’s been a while since I thumbed threw Darwin’s World and but when I did the world wasn’t what I was looking for. I am a reader of a book series called Death Lands by the author James Axler. -- website: jamesaxler.com – the story takes place one hundred years after the nuclear war and I’m designing my world as described in these books. – The d20 apocalypse I have found extremely good for what I was looking for, which was a base to design my own world; based on the Death Lands novels. Again I haven’t looked enough at Darwin’s World to know what book was better, the real turn off for me was the map of the united states that was pictured in the beginnings of the book, nothing wrong with the map, but the DW map is defiantly not the Death Lands Map; and that was what I was looking for. One thing that I do agree with that I don’t like is the fact that you have to get the information out of several books. In reality I don’t mind having to have the D20 Modern book, that don’t bother me at all, what bother’s me is having to have the D20 Future book in order to get the mutations. There is nothing in Future that I need for my campaign except for the Mutations. D20 Apocalypse is the book that should have had the Mutations listed inside it and the Future people should have had to get Apocalypse in order to get them, its Apocalypse after all. – sorry guys I’m threw with my ranting, but that’s the only thing I dislike about the D20 Apocalypse. O yea and the Demon, that is a little ridiculous.

Later,

Also I’m looking for a site with a Apocalypse npc generator. Anybody know of one?

-- ClintforMayor

 

[kingpaul]

D20 Apocalypse is the book that should have had the Mutations listed inside it and the Future people should have had to get Apocalypse in order to get them, its Apocalypse after all. – sorry guys I’m threw with my ranting, but that’s the only thing I dislike about the D20 Apocalypse.

Well, Future came out first, which is probably why Apocalyps references Future instead of the other way 'round

Also I’m looking for a site with a Apocalypse npc generator. Anybody know of one?

Apocalyps is not current OGC. As such, the only company that I'm aware of that has rights with WotC to create datasets for their closed-content books is Code Monkey Publishing. AFAIK, there is not a dataset out yet for either eTools or PCGen for Apocalypse.

 

[ClintforMayor]

Hay, [Bowing and tipping my hat], KingPaul. I think you for the information, Yea Future came out first, you are correct. I suppose it's not that bad. --- Catch ya --- ClintforMayor

PS: If any of you haven’t read any of the books from Death Lands series, I find them to be good inspiration for a Apocalypse game and highly recommend them.

 

[Jack of Shadows]

The odd book out in this discussion appears to be Gamma World - no love for one of the industry's oldest titles.... :\

Have you read the latest incarnation of Gamma World? I'll give it kudos for concept but the rest is just very disappointing.

Jack