d20 dinos

What do you think of dinos in d20?

  • we use em all the time, they're scattered across the land

    Votes: 33 8.6%
  • we have a 'land before time' area where they all live

    Votes: 95 24.7%
  • we use one or two, they fit in nicely

    Votes: 114 29.7%
  • they work, but it can't be straight fantasy/ straight dinosaurs

    Votes: 54 14.1%
  • If my dm started using them, I'd be dissapointed

    Votes: 45 11.7%
  • aweful idea. goes against the nature of things and all that

    Votes: 43 11.2%

woodelf said:
Nitpick: in D&D3E terms, Velociraptor is probably Small, and Deinonychus merely Medium. We're talking ~35# and ~150#, respectively. Jurassic Park has almost perfectly-depicted Deinonychuses, it just called them Velociraptors for some reason. (Particularly baffling to me, since every book on dinosaurs i'd ever read had included Deinonychus, including fairly basic children's books that only listed a few-dozen most-archetypal dinos, while i'd never heard of a Velociraptor until that movie came out. Perhaps Crichton or one of the producers was more concerned about the fidelity of keeping the name the same as in the book than in keeping them the right size?)
Actually, Jurassic Park almost perfectly depicted Utahraptor which was much bigger than Deinonychus. The latter was about the size and weight of a leopard (although obviously built differently) so the JP version are still way too huge.
 

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Dinosaurs? As much as I love them, nope, never used one.
Pleistocene mammals, though, get used in just about every campian. I love the European Ice Age fuana, but I do toss in my own fictional Smilodon speices that is bigger then a cave lion and living the sub-artic taiga.
 

I think an abundance of Dinosaurs would be strange in my campaign but it does depend on what type of campaign you're running. I'll use all the smaller, lower HD ones, since they're just large lizards and don't have to be classified as lizards. Since part of my campaign is underwater, the occasional 'Nessie' is not a far-fetched idea. I think if you stop calling them dinosaurs and instead large evolved lizards, then a whole host of problems go away! :)

Pinotage
 

Joshua Dyal said:
No, the language of the Assyrians was Akkadian, and since Akkadian is primarily a linguistic designation, the Assyrians, by definition, were Akkadians. Unless, of course, you use Akkadian to refer only to residents of the city of Agade/Akkad, which were still "proto-Assyrians" and located in the heart of Assyria proper. Either way, Sargon (the famous one, who created history's first recorded Empire by uniting what was soon to become Assyria with what was already Sumer) was from Akkad, and was an Akkadian in any sense of the word you could use. I had forgotten, until just now, that there were specifically Assyrian kings named Sargon too (two of them, IIRC) but that doesn't change the fact that there was an extremely high degree of cultural and ethnic continuity from the reign of Sargon of Akkad, through the Assyrian kings, and beyond until the Medes came in from north of Mesopotamia and changed that dynamic. One could argue that the relatively brief interlude of Kassite domination of a portion of the area was also an ethnic change in the region, but the Kassites seem to have been more or less absorbed into the already dominant Akkadian culture of the region.

You are correct in terms of where the center of power for the Assyrians vs. the Babylonians, and in the fact that both spoke an East Semitic language (in this case, the same East Semitic language: Akkadian) but both were essentially ethnically the same.

Uh... so, wouldn't it be cool of Sargon led armies of Assyrians on the backs of Triceratopses, and hunted with kennels of velociraptors? :heh:

LOL! I think that's just a very funny overall read, ignoring the excellent content and just looking at it from a different point of view! :)

Pinotage
 

Joshua Dyal said:
Actually, Jurassic Park almost perfectly depicted Utahraptor which was much bigger than Deinonychus. The latter was about the size and weight of a leopard (although obviously built differently) so the JP version are still way too huge.

So what was used in Dungeon? They had a Utahraptor nest and they were about 12 feet tall.
 

I have a continent with them, it is also the homeland of dwarves, orcs and Firenewts.
Humans, Elves and Hairfeet are all immigrants.

currently we are not playing on that contient.
I was thinking that D&D really doesn't neet any more apex predators. Or pack hunters
But could really use more herbavores - heardbeasts and scattered individuals. nonflying dinos would seem out compeated by fantasy monsters not to mention the culling of the dangerous ones by humans and humanoids. Well defended hebavores would fit easily into a fantasy ecology. So from now on - Aggressive herbavore dinos yes, carnivores no.
 

DMH said:
So what was used in Dungeon? They had a Utahraptor nest and they were about 12 feet tall.
In Dungeon -- what? An adventure in the magazine?

Anyway, you opened the floodgates for more information than you probably want, but here goes:

Deinonychus antirrhopus, which was the largest dromeosaur known at the time of filming of JP, is about two and a half to four meters long nose to tail, and would have weighed 50-75 kg. It would only have been able to reach about 5 feet tall tops, with its head fully raised. There was a lot of criticism from dinofans when Spielberg consciously decided to up the size of the animal to make it more fearsome (and even moreso that he was using the name Velociraptor anyway, when V. mongonliensis is only about half the size of D. antirrhopus to begin with.) However, serendipitously, Utahraptor ostrommaysorum was discovered during the filming of JP, and it was touted at least by some as vindication for Spielberg's artistic license. U. ostrommaysorum would have been 5-7 meters long and weighed about a tonne, and using the posture depicted by Spielberg (which I favor, although it's not universally agreed) would have stood probably 2-3 meters tall at eye-level.

So the animals depicted by Spielberg are not completely outside the realm of possibility for a Deinonychus, although they'd be abnormally large (perhaps for ones raised in captivity and fed a steady diet of steroid enhanced meat, and were already genetically pre-disposed to be on the large end of the creature's range that's not so unusual after all,) and they are comfortably within the range of a Utahraptor. Most dinosaur experts will tell you that despite the name used, the creature depicted is an artistic vision of a Utahraptor. As I should know; I was part of a working professional dinosaur list-serve at the time both JP2 and JP3 were released, where a lot of this came back up again and was rehashed quite often (not that I'm a working professional dinosaur expert, of course.)

Keep in mind that there isn't a single size of any animal anyway, anymore than you can say that a human is 1.75 meters tall or whatever. What is 1.75? An average? Across what population? Does it include males and females, etc.

Quite often what's reported for dinosaur sizes is the largest specimen we have, because that's typically the most impressive. For that matter, there are relatively few creatures for which we have a big enough sample to calculate a statistically useful average anyway. And we often don't know what other kinds of features could have affected the size of a given individual -- did dinosaurs manifest sexual dimorphism through size, for instance? Add to that that most statistics you see unless you really get into the technical journals use one sample from an entire genus, ignoring differences of speciation, to say nothing of other geographical factors.

So, the shorter answer to your question is, technically what you say in JP could be Deinonychus, but they'd be really extraordinarily large specimens if so. They were more likely to be Utahraptors based on their size, which is what most dinosaur experts would claim when discussing the movie, although not at the maximum end of the scale for size for that creature, while the Utahraptors in Dungeon would, on the other hand, be about as big as Utahraptors would actually ever get.
 

Issue 54 (from 95) and it has a comment on how the Utahraptor didn't have an official name at the time. They were 15' tall, 20' long and had 7+3 HD.

What are the megaraptor stats in the MM based on (if any real fossil)?

And since I have your attention:

How do you feel about the dilophosaurus in the movie?

Did they ever find what the Surrey claw belongs to?
 

That sounds about right from the timing. I don't think that Utahraptor had been named at that point. In fact, someone, at least, tried to name give a species name of Utahraptor spielbergi to a skeleton in honor of the movie, but consensus has generally decided that it didn't merit being a new species, so it's become a nomen nudum, or incorrect name, and the specimen was prioritized back into U. ostrommaysorum.

Megaraptor is a real critter, but nobody is very clear on exactly what it is because the fossils are very incomplete. It's a large raptor-like animal, certainly, and it probably would have been larger than Utahraptor, assuming it had the same proportions, but many specialists have tentatively assigned it to a completely different therapod group, meaning that it's similarities to the actual dromeosaur "raptors" would have been a case of evolutionary convergence only, not an indication of an actual close relationship.

The dilophosaurs didn't bother me. The idea of a Jesus-lizard-like frill was pretty silly, as was the spitting poison routine. In actuality, Dilophosaurus was also one of the largest carnivores of it's time during the earliest Jurassic, so I'm not sure why they made this one so small. But, hey, the inaccuracies and baseless speculation of poison and frills aside, it was still a cool idea for a movie, anyway.

And the only Surrey claw I'm aware of belongs to Baryonix, a very strange fish-eating dinosaur that was the first of it's kind discovered.
 
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I love you guys.

Testament said:
And Barsoomcore, the eternal truth is that monkeys and fire make everything better.
No, monkeys and fire make everything funnier.

Monkeys ON FIRE getting eaten by dinosaurs? That's a Saturday afternoon with tart margaritas and sunshine.

Gez said:
If you don't have dinosaurs, then what would the magical ninja schoolgirls ride to battle?
Blink, blink.

Blink, blink.

Blink, blink.

*shakes head*

How do I express the stupid coolness of that? Gez, how do I get you to write me a mini-game called "Dino-Riding Magical Ninja High School"?

JD: preach on, brutha. Bring the dino-word to the street. You can post long detailed historical/paleontological summaries ANY time.

And Sargon the Akkadian (I always want to say "Acadian" which is different, but funny) is good.

Sargon. Hee.
 

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