d20 Fantasy: Completeness

[pawsplay]

I am designing a d20 product. I am cleaving pretty close to standard D&D tropes and mechanics. However, I'm administering various tweaks to classes and a few other mechanics. I am considering two basic approaches.

The first is the variant rules approach. I summarize changes, reprint when it aids clarity, and avoid duplication. I list things like "Spells Not Used in This Setting" and "Why There Are No Paladins."

The second is the completeness approach. I stick most of the SRD in there, tailored to my liking, and aim for a complete game, sans reserved material.

I am planning on e-publishing.

Thoughts? Advice from the pros especially welcomed, but I'd also like to know what PDF buyers prefer.

 

[Vaxalon]

Depends on how extensive the changes are.

 

[pawsplay]

Let's say I rewrote the Cleric base list and allowed Wizards access to cure light wounds. Is it worth rewriting the the spell lists, the spell descriptions, or both?

 

[jmucchiello]

I am planning on e-publishing.

Choose from either of the following schools of thought:

1) Throw everything and the kitchen sink into a PDF. It's electronic and text does not take up a lot of "space".

2) People like to print out PDFs, don't force them to reprint material they already have in bound books.

Personally, I lean toward 2.

 

[Nellisir]

Choose from either of the following schools of thought:

1) Throw everything and the kitchen sink into a PDF. It's electronic and text does not take up a lot of "space".

2) People like to print out PDFs, don't force them to reprint material they already have in bound books.

Personally, I lean toward 2.

Same.

Your first option is far friendlier to most consumers who are only looking for a few ideas.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Voadam]

I'd go with the assumption your audience has the PH/SRD and are looking for additions or modifications, not a complete on its own system that duplicates the existing ones they have.

Vast reprinting of the srd for completeness gives the impression of boosting page count without adding anything new and makes finding your new material harder. The srd covers hundreds and hundreds of pages as is, so finding 30 new pages worth of material scattered throughout a complete system reprint would be hard.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

On the flip side of the coin, people don't like to have to cross-reference between several books and pages of notes. I've seen reviews that suggested the publisher should include the relevant OGL material with their unique tweaks and adjustments to minimize cross-referencing.

Back on the first hand, I have also seen plenty of folks say what others have already said here. Don't reprint a lot of OGL material. People don't like buying pages of rules that they have already.

So, the bottom line is as Vaxalon said, it depends on how extensive your changes are. If it's the sort of thing that will send players flipping through three other books looking for specific rules, then you should include it in your book. If its the sort of common knowledge material that they won't have to cross reference a lot, leave it out.

Let's say I rewrote the Cleric base list and allowed Wizards access to cure light wounds. Is it worth rewriting the the spell lists, the spell descriptions, or both?

I would reprint the names, only where relevant. If you are only changing the organization of a few first level spells, there is no need to reprint information about spells of 2nd-9th level. There is also no need to reprint any description of the spell's effect unless you re changing that effect.

 

[mroberon1972]

Actually, I have a similar question:

I am building a modern fantasy setting. I am considering to pros and cons. The final choice is either to make the game assuming the buyer has the d20 modern manual, or the D&D manuals.

D20 modern is a better system of rules, with everything included that is needed. I would have to build the 'advanced' classes for the modern magus, priest, paladin, sorcerer, and etc. I would also have to list a more-or-less complete spellbook and item listing.

D&D would force me to have to reprint the modern ruleset, and would need still need notes on spell limits and classes for the setting. I would have to add such things as the wealth system, skills and rebuild the 'base' classes of d20M for basic D&D.

Right now I am leaning toward the following options:

Just making the d20M version, since it needs no real modifications to the rules, and only add-in resource options such as classes and lists of spells/items.
Build two versions of the setting: One for D&D and one for d20M.
Build a single manual with ALL of the needed info, and just direct them to a book for the items the same in both books (character advancement, etc...). This would be a BIG book.

Build it as a set of smaller manuals: Spells, classes, items, setting, rules. Allowing a mix and match approach to purchasing what you need. I'm afraid this might turn off buyers thinking I'm trying to make them buy 'too much' regardless of the price.

Any thoughts?

Mr. Oberon

 

[The Sigil]

Actually, I have a similar question:

I am building a modern fantasy setting. I am considering to pros and cons. The final choice is either to make the game assuming the buyer has the d20 modern manual, or the D&D manuals.

D20 modern is a better system of rules, with everything included that is needed. I would have to build the 'advanced' classes for the modern magus, priest, paladin, sorcerer, and etc. I would also have to list a more-or-less complete spellbook and item listing.

D&D would force me to have to reprint the modern ruleset, and would need still need notes on spell limits and classes for the setting. I would have to add such things as the wealth system, skills and rebuild the 'base' classes of d20M for basic D&D.

Right now I am leaning toward the following options:

Just making the d20M version, since it needs no real modifications to the rules, and only add-in resource options such as classes and lists of spells/items.
Build two versions of the setting: One for D&D and one for d20M.
Build a single manual with ALL of the needed info, and just direct them to a book for the items the same in both books (character advancement, etc...). This would be a BIG book.

Build it as a set of smaller manuals: Spells, classes, items, setting, rules. Allowing a mix and match approach to purchasing what you need. I'm afraid this might turn off buyers thinking I'm trying to make them buy 'too much' regardless of the price.

Any thoughts?

Mr. Oberon

My basic rule of "republishing" stuff that is in the SRD is that if the "republished" stuff constitutes 15% or less of your material, it's probably a good idea to do it "for completeness." Between 15-20% you should think hard. Over 20% and you shouldn't do it (with the possible exception of things like "every spell published" books).

As far as breaking things down into a smaller set of manuals - it works for Monte, why shouldn't it work for you? Just make sure that every manual is TRULY stand-alone and requires ONLY the SRD to play; referencing "this other book in my series" is bad form unless you state, "requires thus-and-such book to play" up front BEFORE the sale in nice big print.

My 2 coppers.

--The Sigil

 

[JBowtie]

I'm doing something similar with my campaign setting. I'm integrating a lot of disparate OGC since my stack of 'essential books' has topped 50; most of them, of course, I only use a subset of rules from. For example, I only use chapter 11 from a 320-page book - but it has a core class in that chapter essential to my campaign world.

So my approach is that there will be three versions, possibly bundled together.
The kitchen sink version will have everything - it will be a complete OGL book with all the classes, spells, rules, etc. This is for the DM who doesn't want to lug around/cross-reference several dozen books.
The new stuff only version will have just the new rules and flavor text appropriate to the setting. This is for the guy who doesn't mind doing the work and owns just as many books as I do; he'll have to look at section 15 to figure out just which books are needed.
The bare-bones version will be just that - altered mechanics only and summary charts/reference cards. Stuff that usually ends up on a DM screen. Probably everyone will use this if only to avoid looking things up.

I mean, that's the nice thing about PDF publishing, right? You can trivially create multiple versions. I've seen plenty of variations on this theme; black and white versus color, on-screen versus printable, art vs no art, 3.0 vs 3.5, etc. One PDF product I bought had four different versions in a single download.