d20 Future and Hard SF - some random thoughts

[Hypersmurf]

I liked the way that the starfighters had attitude jets all over the place, and that the ships facing could be independent of the ships direction of travel - a nice nod to realistic starship movement.

You get the same thing in the current BSG incarnation, too.

-Hyp.

 

[EditorBFG]

There are a lot of interesting ideas here on how starfighters could actually be reasonable in a hard sf setting.

So let me ask another question: is there any reason why any of these starfighters would need pilots? As someone pointe dout, drones can handle more G's.

I still maintain that space opera style dogfighting, as cool as it looks, has no place in hard sf.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So let me ask another question: is there any reason why any of these starfighters would need pilots? As someone pointe dout, drones can handle more G's.

The main thing I can think of is decision making- many people would have trouble letting an AI make life or death decisions, no matter how sophisticated the AI actually was.

There is also the aspect of ECM/ECCM. Unless the foe has ways to take over human consciousnesses, there is a safety in having an actual human brain at the controls. They can't be jammed, they can't be taken over.

However, like Daleks, Cybermen, The Ship Who Sang or the Cylons of the current Battlestar Galactica, a cybernetically controlled ship attached to a brain without a human body would be more likely than having an actual whole human being. More compact, less life support needed...better overall.

Until they start going nuts from lack of human contact, that is... Perhaps those fighter jocks would house their brains in modular containers that attach to cybernetic humanoid bodies when off duty, and then get dropped into their fighters when needed.

(Hmmmmmmm!)

 

[DarkKestral]

Until they start going nuts from lack of human contact, that is... Perhaps those fighter jocks would house their brains in modular containers that attach to cybernetic humanoid bodies when off duty, and then get dropped into their fighters when needed.

CP2020/Shadowrun do this.. it can get interesting. Cyberinsanity rules can be VERY harsh. If the entire insanity thing comes into play, I suggest avoiding allowing player characters with that as a background, at least in d20. It's likely to get too Frenzied Berserker-ish.

Also, when one goes that route, according to d20 Future's standard rules, cybernetic bodies are limited more by HDs than anything else. Giving PCs bodies with either virtual Hit Dice or limiting them by progression will be funky as all get out to work out, since you'd either need to deal with a 'frame' change once a level or figure out some means of balancing cybernetic characters' vs. flesh-and-blood characters' Hit Dice. Once you consider that, I'd say moving to another ruleset is probably a VERY good idea, especially once you realize how poor Future's starship combat rules are.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The main thing I can think of is decision making- many people would have trouble letting an AI make life or death decisions, no matter how sophisticated the AI actually was.

That is certainly true. Current plans for combat drones still retain the human as decision maker, but the drones can otherwise act autonomously.
Decision Making would mean that the human controller would recieve sensor input, assign a target and command the drone to attack.

There is also the aspect of ECM/ECCM. Unless the foe has ways to take over human consciousnesses, there is a safety in having an actual human brain at the controls. They can't be jammed, they can't be taken over.

ECM and ECCM can only be used to block communication. With cryptographic technology it should be easy to ensure that no false commands are given - especially in the time frame of a tactical situation. A Drone should be capable of hiding and evading without command, and it would then just need to have a way to break through ECM. With satellite surveillance and visual recognition and modelling software it should be possible to give the Drones orders before communication is blocked.

owever, like Daleks, Cybermen, The Ship Who Sang or the Cylons of the current Battlestar Galactica, a cybernetically controlled ship attached to a brain without a human body would be more likely than having an actual whole human being. More compact, less life support needed...better overall.

Until they start going nuts from lack of human contact, that is... Perhaps those fighter jocks would house their brains in modular containers that attach to cybernetic humanoid bodies when off duty, and then get dropped into their fighters when needed.

I think there are still a lot of problems that need to be solved here which are fundamental problesm of "human design". You can't power the brain with electricity, you need blood. And blood must be pumped through your venes, and high G's might make this impossible. And there might be more problems - the nature of the brain cells might cause it to take damage from high accelerations regardless of all tricks employed - though you can certainly stretch the boundaries. Another question might be a more ethical nature - is it ethical to modify soldiers (which are human beings after all) in this way? Keep in mind, a Pilot whose brain was removed from its body is basically a slave with no hope for doing something besides Piloting (unless the process is reversable, which I highly doubt). You definitely need a setting where ethical values are different then those today.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

ECM and ECCM can only be used to block communication. With cryptographic technology it should be easy to ensure that no false commands are given - especially in the time frame of a tactical situation.

Sorry I wasn't clear- I meant that in the case of remote control drones rather than AI or something similar. While with quantum crypography, there is theoretically no way to decipher messages without the key, keys CAN be stolen...and transmissions CAN be jammed.

Another question might be a more ethical nature - is it ethical to modify soldiers (which are human beings after all) in this way? Keep in mind, a Pilot whose brain was removed from its body is basically a slave with no hope for doing something besides Piloting (unless the process is reversable, which I highly doubt). You definitely need a setting where ethical values are different then those today.

The life support issue is purely one of tech- maybe its solvable, but it may be insoluable.

The ETHICAL question is the key as you correctly point out- We can do "X", but should we? As I stated it, the pilot in question would be a brain in a vat (BIV), but would have 2 bodies (at least!)- the one he flies in (his ship) and the one he uses when off duty (something anthropomorphic), so he wouldn't be a slave with no hope of a life besides the military. The BIV would be nested deep within the starship on duty, while being ensconced in the chest cavity of his off duty body.

As for the issue of "slavery"- nobody (at this time) gets drafted into piloting. Its a position earned by skill, and a lot of it. If becoming a BIV was a condition of being a pilot, you can rest assured that the initial BIVs would be volunteers. That story that might change in the crucible of a protracted war, but I don't think so. The idea of someone involuntarily serving as a warrior when he has the state's most powerful weaponry at his command is at least as disturbing as an AI run amok.