D20 Games without AoO.

[Drew]

I was surprised to learn that Call of Cthulu d20 does not use Attacks of Opportunity. The game has them sort of built in. For example, once you engage in melee with an opponent you can't take more than a 5 ft step. To disengage, you can take a double move away. While this works, it seems a little artificial to me. In D&D, if you move around in someone's threatened area, you get whacked. In CofC, you can't move around because you WOULD get whacked.

If I recall, they did this same thing in Star Wars. What is the logic? Do you think it adds to the flavor? Does it make the game easier to run? Finally, do you like "oppy free" d20 or would you use the varient rule presented on page 88 and put AoO back in the game?

 

[The Traveler]

Attacks of Opportunity work better as an optional rule than as a core rule, really.

 

[Drew]

Ok, fair enough. But why do you think that?

 

[The Traveler]

Because they're a level of complexity that's not conducive to the general pace that d20 combat tends to keep.

Levels of complexity like that, in my experience, serve better as optional rules, such that the default combat runs quicker without attacks of opportunity.

 

[Drew]

I agree. At first I didn't, because I'm used to AoO. The next question is: would you use them in a game like CoC, or do you think they are better left out?

Myself, I think I will use them. My main problem with the rules as they stand is they attempt to emulate AoO without actually using them. You can't, for example, cast a spell within an opponent's threatened zone unless you make a concentration check (DC 20). Why not? Because you've left yourself open. I understand it, but to me I prefer the actual pay off of a counter attack. Without actual Oppys, its just TOO abstract.

Thanks for your thoughts, Traveler. I'm also interested to know what others think.

 

[The Traveler]

CoC is not a combat oriented game, due in part to the fact that there's not really anything you can do after your character dies to bring them back.

Ergo, quick combat I think serves to keep the focus on the story, rather than getting bogged down in the more intricate melee combat of D&D.

 

[hong]

Because they're a level of complexity that's not conducive to the general pace that d20 combat tends to keep.

Levels of complexity like that, in my experience, serve better as optional rules, such that the default combat runs quicker without attacks of opportunity.

In _my_ experience, AoOs tend not to add much to complexity, if at all. That's because combatants generally know that if they do silly stuff, like casting a spell while in melee, they provoke an AoO, which is not good for their health. Thus they don't provoke AoOs, and combat is not bogged down.

AoOs are like minefields. Their purpose is to stop people from doing certain things, not cause damage as such.

 

[Sigmund]

It's nice having the option of doing something "silly" in combat if one has the daring and confidence IMO. Spycraft also does away with AoO (not surprising since it seems to be alot like Star Wars), but I haven't read through the combat system yet to see whether I might want to reinstate AoO. The "appys" make combat much more tactical....I can see why CoC might wanna leave them out (getting tactical isn't much help when you're either catatonic or running away , but Star Wars (and possibly Spycraft) would be better served by using the rule, once again IMO.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

It's nice having the option of doing something "silly" in combat if one has the daring and confidence IMO. Spycraft also does away with AoO (not surprising since it seems to be alot like Star Wars), but I haven't read through the combat system yet to see whether I might want to reinstate AoO. The "appys" make combat much more tactical....I can see why CoC might wanna leave them out (getting tactical isn't much help when you're either catatonic or running away , but Star Wars (and possibly Spycraft) would be better served by using the rule, once again IMO.

I heard that Star Wars will have AoOs in the revised

 

[DMaple]

If you get into combat in CoC you have probably made a mistake and will likely pay for it with your life. So AoO just add a level of complexity for no good reason.

Also do you really want AoO in a game where all the monsters are bigger than you and have Reach?