[d20 Modern] Abrams tank cannon...150 ft!!!???!!!

[Merova]

Can't Resist. Must Have Tanks Rules.

The 120mm cannon in Spycraft has a range increment of 1,100 ft. 'Course in Spycraft we discourage shooting at people with tank rounds (it's -10 to hit people and animal, no penalty for shooting at vehicles and buildings). Damage is a bit different too, with the cannon doing 8d8, and an extra +55 points if you roll a threat while shooting a vehicle or building.

Morgenstern,

Those rules look pretty good, IMO. I couldn't find these rules in the core book, in spite of the excellent index. So, I assume they are in another book. Could you tell me where to find them?

Thanks.

---Merova (who just adores Spycraft.)

 

[Morgenstern]

We put a big section of really, REALLY BIG weapons in the Soldier /Wheelman Class Guide (give them something to put on tanks, spruces up your mastermind's fortified lair, and looks really cool when you call in an airstrike).

The list includes~
Cannons (20mm thru 420mm w/ 8 types of ammo)
Guided Missiles (IR, Radar, Television, or Wire Guided)
Harpoon Guns (we're talking whale sized here)
Mine Layers (several options)
Vehicular Rocket Launcher pods (mongo like helicopter gun ships )
Heavier Machineguns (7.62mm up to 40mm, and depleted uranium rounds if you're feeling surly)
Cluster Bomb, FAEs, Iron bombs, Mine Scattering Bombs and precision bombs (hey, I'm in the Air Force - I like things that hang from wings ).
Flamethrowers & Automatic Grenade Lauchers
Depth Charges & Torpedos

Theres also a big section for putting together your own vehicles, but we stated up a couple of favorites as examples, including the M1A2 Abrams and the Bradley, anlong with A-10 "Warthogs" and the Mi-24 Hind.

Hope this helps,

 

[Merova]

On My Purchase List

Theres also a big section for putting together your own vehicles, but we stated up a couple of favorites as examples, including the M1A2 Abrams and the Bradley, anlong with A-10 "Warthogs" and the Mi-24 Hind.

Hope this helps,

Wow! This sounds great. I normally don't buy splatbooks, but it sounds like this one is more than just a long restatement of the core class with added nifties. Very cool.

Thanks for info.

---Merova

 

[Synicism]

Throw a range-finder on there that negates some, most, or all of your range penalties and you're good to go.

Otherwise, I suppose if you're just eye-ballin' it, 150 feet for your first range band is not bad. 50 yards? Up to 100 yards at -2? That really seems
reasonable to me.

That isn't the point. The point is that the 150' range increment is inaccurate to the point of absurdity.

 

[nsruf]

That isn't the point. The point is that the 150' range increment is inaccurate to the point of absurdity.

I think Wulf has a point, i.e. assume that the 150' increment is without targeting gear and special training. If you look at the personal firearms ranges, they are also somewhat on the low side. But a sniper with far shot feat and a scope gets two 50 % range increases, i.e. double the range - and suddenly those values look feasible (at least to me). Now if a targeting scope adds 50% to range, a rangefinder, targeting computer, etc. should help a lot more. So the real problem would be that vehicle equipment and its effect on accuracy is not detailed in the book.

 

[Steve Conan Trustrum]

Stats for real world weapons seems to be one of those things that gaming supplements consistently seem to get wrong. I can understand erring on the side of caution - after all, weapon books usually list a maximum range considering ideal firing range conditions, but I do have to agree, a 150' range increment is nowhere near what the 120mm gun should have, no matter how you try to justify it.

If you want it to be low for the sake of "eyeballing" the target, then also list a seperate range for when you're using the targeting suite (especially considering that doing otherwise assumes that the consumer has enough knowledge of the 120mm's operational stats to object to the way the game stats are presented).

Sorry guys, but badly converted weapon stats in an rpg is one of those things that gets under my skin.

 

[dkilgo]

I know that we were asked not to try to include real life weapons and armorment in this post, but I just feel that I must.

As I am former military, and have served more than eleven months in a combat zone where I have seen tanks in action, I would have to go with a much larger range increment on that cannon. The cannon on an abrams is designed to deal lethal damage to vehicles and structures. (ie... blasting large holes in bunkers and what not...) I have personally seen a tank fire upon a target the size of two men standing side-by-side, and hit with pin point acurracy. I use to go to the firing ranges to watch them fire. Oh, by the way, this target was at a distance of over 8 KM. Believe it or not, I care not. It really happened!

Second, the cannon on a tank was not, and is not, designed to handle infantry. It's soul purpose is to damage vehicles, and structures. As I have said before. The only thing upon a tank that was designed for infantry control are in fact the crew themselves. The 20mm cannon, and the 50 Cal. machine gun (By Geneva Convention) are not to be used to target personnel. Only gear, vehicles, and structures. The damage those weapons deal out are too extreme, and cause morbid rates of casualties.

So, back to topic, I think it should have a range increment of at least 1,000 to 1,200 feet. (Which is less than a KM.)

 

[Ranger REG]

Knowing that a 120mm gun is not designed for anti-personnel purpose, what happen if you try to target and fire on a creature? Would said creature aware of the gun be allowed to use his Defense?

I assume that the damage would definitely exceed even the highest Mas a creature is capable of having, and assuming he could survive the Fort save, the heroic character is going to have a serious reduction in HP (average 60 hp).

Correct me if I'm wrong. Of course, there is no way to know since it is unethical to test the weapon on a live subject (aka, human). Even to use this against criminal would be deemed "cruel and unusual punishment" under the law.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

Charles Ryan posted this on the WotC boards:
http://boards.wizards.com/community-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=291;t=000791

"You're right; the range increments for armored vehicle weapons are way too low. They should be as follows:

BMP-2 30mm cannon: 300 ft.
M1A2 Abrams tank canon: 400 ft.
M2A2 Bradley 25mm canon: 350 ft.

Remember that range increment is not merely "the longest range I've ever heard rumors of this weapon being used at divided by 10." The actual formula is roughly 2/3 of maximum effective range divided by 10. This provides a base maximum range unaffected by feats or special equipment; the actual effective range is attained (or exceeded) by adding such elements as the Far Shot feat or special sighting devices."

 

[keb]

The M830 and M830A1 HEAT-MP-T are designed to have anti-personnel capability.

https://w4.pica.army.mil/tmas/new_folder/Large Caliber/lge_cal_M830A1.asp
https://www.pica.army.mil/CCACHeavy/cch/CCH-B/m830.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m830a1.htm

A canister round, the XM1028, is also being developed.