d20 Modern-Dark Matter FX Classes: Action Points

[buzz]

Um, buzz. The Occultist advanced class is not part of Urban Arcana. It's part of the Shadow Chasers campaign model.

I know that. It seemed to me that Hoodooman was very much in the UA midset, though, and the suggested use of the Occultist for "scroll-spells" and "minor magics" is still thinking too UA for a by-the-book D*M campaign. The Occultist implies magic as a tool and the ability to find actual answers to occult questions. IMHO, this is 180 degress from D*M.

Of course, I'm trying to model the Occultist in the same form as Buffy's Rupert "Ripper" Giles and Angel's Wesley Wyndham-Pryce.

Well, that's basically the role the class was designed for. In the original Poly version of ShadowChasers, it was basically the Mentor class. Again, IMHO, this totally doesn't fit with D*M.

 

[Ranger REG]

And yet, you criticize that d20 Modern don't offer limited "magic" abilities for low levels? I'm confused.

And what does fit in D*M?

 

[jaerdaph]

Well, you just can't get FX abilities at 1st level in d20M without creating a Basic class that grants them, and that wold just be lame.

Technically, you can take the Wild Talent feat at 1st level and get a 0 level Psionic talent in d20M, but otherwise I agree with your point as to a feat/skill based FX system.

 

[buzz]

And yet, you criticize that d20 Modern don't offer limited "magic" abilities for low levels? I'm confused.

HeapThaumaturgist was the one critcizing; I was just agreeing with him. And my issue isn't so much with levels as it is with the imported D&D magic and psi in d20M. I think a feat/skill FX system would have been more fun as a "default" for d20M. The imported D&D systems could have been saved for Urban Arcana. It's not a huge issue for me, though.

Also, d20M != D*M.

And what does fit in D*M?

Enochians, diabolists, hermeticists, and mindwalkers. Preferrably as NPCs.

Given the choice, I think that the added psi abilities from Call of Cthulhu d20 fit D*M better than anything else. The FX classes in d20M, even at low levels, I think are generally too flashy and competent for D*M.

 

[buzz]

Technically, you can take the Wild Talent feat at 1st level and get a 0 level Psionic talent in d20M, but otherwise I agree with your point as to a feat/skill based FX system.

D'oh! I forgot about that.

I'm very interested to see what d20F does with FX; it was rumored to use a skill/feat system (probably a la SWd20), right?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Well D&D magic has an entirely different flavor from D*M magic ... each "style" of magic had very few spells ... each with somewhat limited Rules-Affecting abilities. One whole Enochian spell created a "White Salamander" ... mostly a summoned Produce Flame effect. About as flashy and damaging as it got ... and the salamander itself was invisible, so things would just "catch fire" spontaniously. Very cool, very flavorful ... NOT Fireball. Not even Magic Missle or Summon Monster I.

Then my favorite Monotheistic spell merely adds to Diplomacy rolls ... ha! Signs and Portents ... basically you can cause thunder to rumble, lightning to strike, and the earth to shake while you threaten somebody. Or cause the sun to shine on a rainy day if you're trying to charm someone. A very powerful, very interesting spell, but not even Charm Person.

What I'm doing is using the Feat system from CoC for some low-power psychic stuff and doling out spells by-hand CoC style. I'm balancing it with the ability damage and Fatigue Points = Con and transforming the San damage to Fatigue damage. Quick, easy, balanced and nobody can cast more than 1-3 spells in a day without passing out.

--fje

 

[Hoodooman]

Buzz: FX classes were offered in original Alternity Dark Matter character creation.

Buzz- Character creation in the original Alternity Dark Matter offered occultists, psychics, psi agents, and visionaries. So the whole idea of pushing Dark Matter classes off into NPC territory takes away from the feel of the game. It explains in character creation that backgrounds let not only the standard agent but FX and Psionic characters.

I still think Action Points makes the FX characters limited. For instance, look at the Pulp Heroes or Iron Lords of Jupiter minigames from Polyhedron, they wre low-magic and you didn't have to use Action Points for FX.

The d20 Modern conversion makes Dark Matter weak, which it wasn't when it was under Alternity rules. The FX mechanics in Alternity didn't make weak magical or psionic powers.




[Enochians, diabolists, hermeticists, and mindwalkers. Preferrably as NPCs.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

They just make DIFFERENT magical and psionic powers. Which, I guess, they can't really do since they used the vancian system for magic. They had a choice ... "PrC Abilities" that burn APs or vancian slot-spells.

Or they could have gone out on a freakin' limb and produce another D*M book for D20M and put all-new rules in it.

Bleh. Wishes in one hand ...

--fje

 

[buzz]

Buzz- Character creation in the original Alternity Dark Matter offered occultists, psychics, psi agents, and visionaries. So the whole idea of pushing Dark Matter classes off into NPC territory takes away from the feel of the game. It explains in character creation that backgrounds let not only the standard agent but FX and Psionic characters.

There was a smiley after the NPC comment for a reason.

Yes, Alternity allowed these types of PCs. However, I think that D*M didn't necessarily *encourage* these types as starting PCs. The mindwalking section of chapter 3 puts a lot of limits on psi as compared to a standard Alternity character. Chapter 4 also resrticts magic FX a bit. Essentially, no D*M PC is actually going to be a member of an FX profession ("class"). Ergo, I don't see d20M mages, acolytes, and occultists really fitting the setting.

I think the sample PCs presented for use with Exit 23 are more along the lines of your average 1st-level D*M character. Of course, as I said, you can do whatever you want in your campaign, but ready access to powerful magic just doesn't strike me as being true to the setting, so I wouldn't do it myself.

I still think Action Points makes the FX characters limited. For instance, look at the Pulp Heroes or Iron Lords of Jupiter minigames from Polyhedron, they wre low-magic and you didn't have to use Action Points for FX.

But Pulp Heroes and ILOJ are way more cinematic than D*M. They're street-level supers and science fantasy, respectively. No way, IMHO, should D*M PCs be able to do that sort of flashy stuff. I think the AP-based FX in Poly was actually a very good compromise.

When d20M first came out, I remember that Monte Cook, when asked if D*M would be ported to the system, said he thought that Call of Cthulhu was more what he'd prefer for a system to be paired with D*M. The intention of the setting seems clear. PCs being able to handle problems with knock or sleep spells at will just doesn't fit.

Again, this is my impression of the system. If you want a higher FX level in your D*M game, by all means go for it. I still encourage you to read jonrog1's story hour for what I think is a great example of how a D*M game should run.

 

[Ranger REG]

Given the choice, I think that the added psi abilities from Call of Cthulhu d20 fit D*M better than anything else. The FX classes in d20M, even at low levels, I think are generally too flashy and competent for D*M.

Of the FX advanced classes in d20 Modern, only the occultist and telepath are acceptable, as they are mentioned in the D*M mini-game (Dungeon 108, p. 81).

While I don't embrace the "almost like magic" (or "virtual vancian") Psionic system, Instead of the Telepath, I opted for the Modern Psychic advanced classes with the accompanying skill-n-feat Psychic system (found in The Psychic Handbook).

The Occultist somehow work differently than your average yet banned from D*M (except as NPCs) Mage advanced class. But I don't believe the Occultist is too flashy for an advanced class, nor is it overly competent.