[d20 modern] Taser too weak?

[RangerWickett]

Fort save DC 15 to avoid passing out from being hit by a taser? From what I understand, it is impossible to avoid going into spasms when you're hit with a taser. I can see a heroic character pulling it off (maybe he just barely dodges the shock, or he pulls away after only a brief buzz), but a normal person simply cannot remain standing if he is tased. The DC should be 25, methinks.

 

[Darrin Drader]

You know, here in Washington, Tacoma more specifically, a couple days ago a guy died while being taken into custody after being hit with a taser. So much for it being a non-lethal method of subduing a suspect.

 

[Crothian]

Ya, that is really weak. Is the attack roll a regular attack, ranged attack, or some sort of touch attack?

 

[2WS-Steve]

As a small counterpoint; back in the ole days of first edition Shadowrun the taser was an excellent way to take out dragons...

Given that it's a Save or Die (er, get captured) sort of weapon I'd prefer to keep it in the range where it was mainly used to take out mooks. Other than as a plot device I wouldn't want my 10th level players, NPCs, or Mind Flayers all living in fear of this weapon.

 

[RangerWickett]

Okay, DC 25, with a bonus/penalty to your save of +/-4 for every size category larger/smaller than Medium-size. A huge Dragon would basically only have to beat DC 17, and every huge Dragon has a Fort bonus of at least +16.

A large Dragon the size of a horse might still have a 50% chance or so of being taken out.

As for killing the guy in real life, well, it does do d4 points of electrical damage, so if it was a critical hit, he could've been dropped to negative hit points, and later died from heart failure.

And it requires a full hit, not just a touch attack, so armor blocks it.

 

[Crothian]

Okay, I was thinking they might make it easy to hit with, but have the low save to compensate. Toss that idea out the window.

 

[Gaius]

Having been shocked by a taser and having seen other people shocked with a taser and hearing about many, many others who have been shocked, I have to say that there's pretty much no way you're going to simply shrug off the effects of it. It's just not happening; at least, not realistically.

Also, you have to consider too the limitations of the taser. First of all, you've got a maximum effective range of 7 yards. I don't know if that's reflected in the d20 Modern rules or not, but that's how it is in real life. So you have to be really close. And the subject generally can't be moving a whole lot. Zapping someone on the run is a damn hard thing to do.

As for the death in Tacoma, that's still under investigation pending the results of the autopsy. Don't jump to conclusions yet, Baraendur. So far, every single death that has occured in conjunction with use of a taser has been for other factors. Typically, drug use. You pump a guy's system full of something like meth or cocaine, get him all riled up, maybe fight with him a bit, shoot him with a taser, and then handcuff him in the back of a hot patrol car, and sometimes death will occur. In such cases, the overriding cause is the presence of drugs; the taser is incidental.

Gaius

 

[Darrin Drader]

Oh I'm pretty sure that the guy was doped up or had a weak heart or something. I'm pretty positive that there were contributing factors other than just the taser. I'm not about to jump on any taser banning band wagon.

I also don't have a lot of sympathy for the guy. If you're going to put yourself in a position where force must be used against you, you pretty much must live with the consequences of your actions (or not live as the case may be).

 

[TheAuldGrump]

As for the death in Tacoma, that's still under investigation pending the results of the autopsy. Don't jump to conclusions yet, Baraendur. So far, every single death that has occured in conjunction with use of a taser has been for other factors. Typically, drug use. You pump a guy's system full of something like meth or cocaine, get him all riled up, maybe fight with him a bit, shoot him with a taser, and then handcuff him in the back of a hot patrol car, and sometimes death will occur. In such cases, the overriding cause is the presence of drugs; the taser is incidental.

Or, as in a case in Los Vegas in the '80s you just keep buzzing him to watch him twitch. (A couple of idiot cops in this case thought that it was fun....)

The Auld Grump. Taser stands for Thomas A Swift's Electric Rifle....

 

[Henry]

Also remember this one axiomatic life lesson, which is kind of a downer for RPG's...


...Any time force is used against a person, there is a small chance that you will end up killing or seriously injuring that person. Policemen especially know this. Non-lethal force is all well and good, but, just like routine surgery, there is always the miniscule chance that use of force could kill someone, no matter how "non-lethal." This is why police would prefer to talk someone out of a situation, before forcing them out of it.

However, this is the chance one takes when someone puts themselves in such a position.