d20 Modern vs. controversial D&D rules

[kreynolds]

Charles Ryan overheard that VP/WP system will be added to the SRD (which one, I do not know) so publishers will have an option.

Still, I have to wonder how a WP/VP system would work without DR based armor.

Personally, I prefer this a high priority over the remaining D&D core rules OGC that have yet to be formally released.

Here, here.

 

[Slacker]

Still, I have to wonder how a WP/VP system would work without DR based armor.



Here, here.

Star Wars d20 1st edition.

 

[Xeriar]

Star Wars d20 1st edition.

The Revised book changed that? Wow, I should like, look at it...

I still do all my Star Wars gaming in d6

 

[buzz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d20 Modern vs. controversial D&D rules

Careful! The spell has never been errata'd... it's been "corrected" in the FAQ, which although official, is not the same thing.

Right, but originally it was "errata'ed" in Sage Advice, back when Sage Advice contained declarations of official errata (a policy that has since been changed).

All I'm saying is that this "ruling" or whatever you want to call it has been around at least since I started reading ENWorld, which was about Jan/Feb of 2001, and is in the Official FAQ. Ergo, the d20 Modern version isn't all that radical a change. It's the same "corrected" version of the spell modified for Modern's defense bonuses.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[Alcamtar]

(2) The d20 Modern haste spell no longer gives an extra action! It gives one extra attack with a full-round attack, or an extra 30 feet speed on a move. Casting an extra spell with it is specifically prohibited. (I notice that this then looks a lot like the speed weapon enhancement, except it's counter to the Sage's ruling that you can use speed without a full attack action.)

I think this is an excellent change, one that I'll use in the next 3E campaign I run. This is, incidentally, how haste worked in previous editions of D&D and nobody complained about it. People are just spoiled now with all their new superpowers!

In my 3E games Haste is a must-have spell since it effectively doubles the wizard's casting power. The wizard made himself a wand of haste and a very high initiative. Standard tactic EVERY fight was to cast Haste first off on himself. He would then cast two magic missiles per round (again from a homemade wand)... Magic missiles do better damage than a fireball agianst a single victim with a good Reflex save, wands are cheap, and there is no defense for a non-wizard. Another favorite haste trick is to make a full move then cast a ranged spell like MM, so the enemy fighter has to keep chasing you around the battlefield and can only hit you if he charges each time.

In fact the player felt the haste spell was so important he refused to go adventuring without it, considering the character handicapped otherwise.

Used intelligently, Haste is as valuable/useful as a Ring of Wizardry, maybe moreso. This is too powerful for a third level spell.

Mike

 

[ZSutherland]

I just wanted to add, for those people who thinks 3E haste is fine as it is, citing other spells and abilities that get used in every combat, think about it from a wider perspective. Do the party rogues use sneak attack, flanking, and tumble in every time they're able? Yup. It's what they do, but you don't notice the wizard or cleric (typically of course) rolling around and catching the opposition off guard for massive damage. You don't catch the fighter wielding small, nor do you find the fighter wearing little to no armor so as not to reduce his tumble check. Do all arcane casters use MM in most fights, yes, but offer your 4th to 5th level fighter that casts a 3d4+3 MM three times a day and tell him he has to give up all weapons and armor for it and he'll laugh at you. These abilities are used every time by the groups that are supposed to use them, but Haste gets used by everybody by whatever means necessary, boots, potions, wands, scrolls, etc.

As for healing, IMHO quick, reliable healing spells are really there for the DM. Try WoT where all healing spells do is convert real damage to subdual and sometimes take several hours to cast. It's there to keep the DM sane and the adventure moving.

Z

 

[dcollins]

Re: Re: d20 Modern vs. controversial D&D rules

I think this is an excellent change, one that I'll use in the next 3E campaign I run. This is, incidentally, how haste worked in previous editions of D&D and nobody complained about it. People are just spoiled now with all their new superpowers!

Close, and a good point (I agree with you about the "spoiled" possiblity), but it's not precisely the same. According to AD&D 1st Ed. PHB (p. 74), hasted "creatures function at double their normal movement and attack rates". Extra spells were indeed prohibited.

So, the d20 Modern version (+1 attack or +30 ft. speed) is even a bit less powerful than AD&D haste.

 

[Victim]

Previous versions of haste were among the sickest spells around, because of 2 factors. 1) double attacks. 2) area of effect. Double attacks means that the 5th level dual wielding specialized fighter gets 5 attacks and the area means that all his friends get double attacks too. Since most of the groups I play are pretty large and fighter heavy, a single haste spell pretty much doubles offensive power.

Except for the fact that it allows 2 spells per round, 3e haste is much less powerful than 2e haste.

About the only thing I'd do to fix haste is split the spell haste and physical haste aspects.

 

[0-hr]

I just wanted to add, for those people who thinks 3E haste is fine as it is, citing other spells and abilities that get used in every combat, think about it from a wider perspective. Do the party rogues use sneak attack, flanking, and tumble in every time they're able?

But Haste is used by EVERY character every battle. If everyone (inlcuding the wizards and clerics) were using some boots to add Sneak Attack damage onto their every attack and spell, then I would probably rule that was broken as well.

 

[Bonedagger]

Re: Re: Regarding Haste

I agree with you 100% on that one. In fact, IMC, I've house ruled Haste to provide an extra move equivalent action rather than an extra partial.

Just use Dispel Magic more.