d20 Modern Wealth problem?

[Perpetrated Press]

Gez,

I like your solution to the treasure wealth awards. I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

 

[kreynolds]

I think the DCs are supposed to reflect availability as well as price. Thus the pistol gets a high DC because you need a license to own one.

Exactly.

 

[Mistwell]

I've been reading the Wealth Bonuses for Adventuring Gains rules on page 204.

Is it just me, or is there a large gaping hole in this section? It doesn't say how to apply the Wealth bonus. Is it split among the party or can it be given to one PC? I assume the bonus is supposed to be added to the PCs current Wealth total, although this is not explicitly stated. If this is the case, why would any party ever give a wealth bonus to anyone except the designated Money Tree PC?

Why would I ever give any Wealth bonus to someone other than the character with the highest Wealth? Continuing to raise the Wealth of one character will reap the party much more than splitting it up because that one character can buy equipment of greater value for the whole party.

For example, a party of 4 PCs of 3rd level with Wealth bonuses of +3, +5, +6, and +8. They defeat an encounter of EL 3, and snag a wallet with cash that provides a treasure of +6 Wealth.

Now, who are they going to give the Wealth to? Splitting it up equally, or thereabouts, gives two players +1 Wealth, and two +2 Wealth. Let's say the two lowest PCs are raised by two, so it's now PC wealth = +5, +7, +7, +8.

On the other hand, if they give all +6 Wealth to the PC with the highest bonus, he gets now has a Wealth +14. This means that the Wealth +14 character can buy any item with a Purchase DC 14 or less at his leisure. He can equip his comrades with these items at no reduction in Wealth.

Extending that logic, the higher one PCs Wealth the more stuff he can "get for free", that is, by not reducing his Wealth score. A +6 bonus to Wealth is much more valuable to a character with higher wealth.

Now, the obvious restraint on this type of munchkinism is the GM. He can demand that the treasure wealth bonus be split up as equally as possible.

What do you guys think?

Page 92: "When a team of characters gains a wealth award, they should split it among themselves as evenly as possible"

Once split, it would be difficult to transfer. According to the rules on Page 38, Wealth scores do not represent cash. They represent buying power, including credit, debt, leverage, savings, income, etc...Therefore I would not let PCs transfer wealth between each other. One PC cannot transfer, for example, a good credit rating to another PC. Just lock wealth into those gains achieved when PCs level up, and when they find treasure evenly devided among them. You will find the system works just fine, when used as explained in the rules.

 

[Mistwell]

Here is what Charles Ryan, d20M author and d20M "sage", had to say about some issues with the wealth system over on the WOTC boards:

Originally posted by Charles Ryan:
[QB]Here are a couple solutions to your problems:

Originally posted by Trichobezoar:
[qb]1. Someone reduces their wealth mod to 0. Then, they roll a check to buy something with DC around 7 or 8. They immediately turn around and sell it, increasing their mod by 1. Then they can take 20 to buy something with purchase DC up to 21. [. . .] The only thing I can think of to counter this would be to limit the amount of game time available to make purchases by making events happen in-game to interrupt that.[/qb]

I recommend strictly enforcing the rule under Shopping and Time, bolstering it with the following house rule: "When your Wealth bonus is +0, all objects, no matter how common, take a number of hours equal to their purchase DC to buy."

Also, I'd add the rule that selling objects also takes a number of hours equal to their normal (not sale value) purchase DC.

Then I'd get your adventure started, so that any player who wants to screw around with buying and selling starts missing out on the action.

[qb]2. By keeping one wealthy party member, when anyone's wealth decreases, that wealthy character can help anyone else recover their wealth modifier to nearly the level of the wealthy charactre by this method: The poor character has some cheap token possession, and sells it to the wealthier for a vastly inflated price, but still beneath 15 and beneath the wealthier character's wealth bonus. Thus, the wealthier character loses nothing, and the poorer gains.[/qb]

The rules for buying and selling don't change just because it occurs between characters. If a hero wants to sell something to his friend, the sale value is equal to the normal purchase DC for the item minus 3. The players can't simply decide to change that, no more than they can arbitrarily decide to change the DC of any other check.

A rich character can help his friends in a number of other, perfectly acceptable ways. He can buy things and give them to his friends (if his Wealth bonus is above +14, he can buy his friends an infinite supply of items with purchase DCs of 14 or less). He can make aid another checks, giving his friends +2 on their rolls. Those ways of helping out are fine.

Hope that gives you some ammunition against your greedy players![/QB]

Originally posted by Charles Ryan:
[QB]

Originally posted by atiff:
[qb]A lucky player can make money by doing the following:
- purchase something 12 or more greater than their wealth (with take 20), thereby reducing their weatlh by a dice roll (1d6+1 or 2d6+1 - note the item would have to be at least DC 15, since you can't take 20 if you have +0 wealth)
- sell the same item and recover a dice roll of wealth (since the sale value would be at least 11 higher than their wealth, after deductions from buying it).

If the sale dice roll (1d6+1 or 2d6+1, or whatever) is higher than their buying roll, they will make money out of this.[/qb]

Remember that when you sell something, its sale value is 3 points less than its normal purchase DC. That makes it tough (though not impossible) to use this method. And because the gains are (at best) the same as the losses, this is a very risky and unreliable way to try to cheat the system. . .[/QB]

 

[med stud]

Sorry for high- jacking, but a lot of my Modern games (not necessarily d20) are taking place in the US.

How hard is it to get a license for the following?

1) Automatic pistol/ Revolver
2) Semi automatic shotgun
3) Submachine gun
4) Assault rifle (M16, AK 47, etc)

I would be grateful for answers!

 

[Perpetrated Press]

Gun licensing

Med Stud,

Licensing weapons is a state issue for non-fully automatic weapons.

For example, I live in Washington State, where I do not require a license to own a gun (non-fully automatic). In other states, licenses may be required.

Here's a great website from the NRA that will get you the info you want on any State of the Union:

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=state

 

[Unseelie]

Why would I ever give any Wealth bonus to someone other than the character with the highest Wealth?

You're a Republican, aren't you?

 

[Perpetrated Press]

Unseelie,

Darn tootin! ;-)

 

[Crothian]

Why would I ever give any Wealth bonus to someone other than the character with the highest Wealth?

I really hope my PCs do something like this. That way if that one character happens to die or be otherwise unavilible they will be basically broke. Nothing like having one character with the money and the other 5 or 6 as slackers with nothing. The guy with the money would have all the power as it is his money. It would be so much easier to mess with them if they do something this ridiculus.

 

[med stud]

Re: Gun licensing

Med Stud,

Licensing weapons is a state issue for non-fully automatic weapons.

For example, I live in Washington State, where I do not require a license to own a gun (non-fully automatic). In other states, licenses may be required.

Here's a great website from the NRA that will get you the info you want on any State of the Union:

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=state

Thanks for the site! It was very good! I know that in my country you are allowed to buy bolt action rifles at will if you have a hunter's license, but nobody but militaries and police officers are allowed to own handguns and the like.