d20 Modern: What Would you change part II

[Vigilance]

I snagged Monte Cook's WoD today, actually, and plowed through it. As described above, I rather like the "focus" aspect, serving as de facto classes, while the RACES are what we usually consider classes, with distinct "talent" trees -- and no multiclassing. It's very specialized to WoD, but expect that to be close to the racial variation in 4e I'd imagine.

I was wondering about yoru design style, Vigilance. Ar eyou just posting the stuff you want to get some feedback on, or are these actually the setions you're startign with and will fill in as you go?

Well, I'm certainly looking for feedback, or else I wouldn't post anything.

But basically, I'm posting things as I work on them, seeing how folks react to the direction. There has definitely been an influence back and forth between this thread, and the comments on my blog, and the design process.

Allowing characters to specialize in one aspect of a skill, by gaining a +3 on one skill use while taking a -3 on the other uses, is probably the biggest compromise I've made as a direct result of this thread.

And that's also an example of why sometimes I might not go with feedback as well. The people who felt strongly about 40+ relatively narrow skills didn't think my compromise, 22 broad skills, with the ability to specialize in specific skill aspects, went far enough.

So even though I compromised, they're likely still not happy and might not buy the book.

In the end, I just have to hope that my reputation for doing good Modern products, and the good outweighing the bad that folks see in this thread, will convince more people to give the book a shot than would have other wise.

But if you're asking, are you seeing how I work through this thread, then I suppose the answer would be yes.

I started with an outline that basically read:

Introduction

Characters
-Backgrounds
-Occupations
-Hobbies
-Allegiances
-Reputation
-Wealth
-Action Points
-Character Classes
--PC Archetypes
---Muscle
---Speed
---Tank
---Brains
---Empath
---Star
-Ordinaries
-Skills
-Feats
-Putting it all together: Character Creation

Combat

And I've slowly been filling that in. Currently Backgrounds, Occupations, Hobbies, Allegiances, Reputation, Skills and Feats are done.

So I started with the outline and work from there, filling in things in what feels like a natural progression.

It's hard to describe what feels natural, but basically I started with skills, because I needed to know what the final skill list would look like for Backgrounds, Occupations, Hobbies and classes.

Then I needed to see a relatively complete feat list for Occupations, because they grant improved feats, so I went there next, and so on.

Whew, I just keep talking don't I?

Probably way more info than you wanted.

Chuck

 

[Wraith Form]

Seriously? I'll be buying this prodcut. You planning a stream of electrons version, a dead tree, or both?

 

[Vigilance]

Seriously? I'll be buying this prodcut. You planning a stream of electrons version, a dead tree, or both?

PDF for starters, though we are dabbling more with POD.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, depending on how the balance of the classes works out, I might make the mental classes somewhat whimpy. I just felt like d20M went too far. The Smart and Charismatic Hero had low BAB, Defense and pretty mediocre saves.

As someone who ran a lot of military campaigns that were heavy in combat, those classes were avoided like the Bubonic Plague.

I would guess a major problem would be that the "mental classes" aren't as combat orientated as typical D20 classes. But they provide abilities that a rounded group needs (even if just for the skills they get.) But a military campaign doesn't need a rounded group (who really needs a computer guy, or a charmer?).

Another problem is the D&D 3.x mindset of "rarely multi class". A multiclassed Strong/Smart character can be a lot of fun. I always wanted to try out a Fast/Charismatic or a Smart/Charismatic, too. But I must admit, the fact that there are only 20 levels (in regular play) makes multi classing a bit less thrilling. It just takes so long to get the next cool thing in a particular class. But this problem will never cease, I suppose.

But maybe D20 Modern limited all abilities a bit too much. After reading through SAGA and its talent trees, I find the D20 Modern talents pretty dull and/or weak (but internally, I think they're balanced fine. They just pale in comparison to SAGA)
More classes with a good BAB and no classes with less than 4(5) skill points per level would have been god. The Defense progression wasn't thought out that well (okay, that only applies to the Fast Hero), and I don't know why they reduced the saving throw progression for good saving throw.

 

[Vigilance]

Well the classes are done.

The final class breakdown looks like this:

Powerhouse (Str, melee combat specialist, best BAB)
Speedfreak (Dex, ranged combat specialist, best Defense)
Tank (Con, melee combat specialist, best HP)
Brainiac (Int, skill specialist, most skill points)
Empath (Wis, skill specialist, best saving throws)
Star (Cha, skill specialist, best Reputation)

Classes get 4 feats at 1st level, and 1 feat for every level after 1st.

There's a large general feat table, and each class has its own feat table with at least 10 feats (I am making every effort to have each class' feat table contain the exact same number of feats).

Each class also has a core ability that you only get if you take your 1st character level in that class. Each core ability has one function that works all the time, and another, considerably more powerful one, that works when you spend an Action Point.

I'm considering posting a sample class, but I'm not 100% sure how much that will help people.

 

[Father of Dragons]

Classes get 4 feats at 1st level, and 1 feat for every level after 1st.

There's a large general feat table, and each class has its own feat table with at least 10 feats (I am making every effort to have each class' feat table contain the exact same number of feats).

Each class also has a core ability that you only get if you take your 1st character level in that class. Each core ability has one function that works all the time, and another, considerably more powerful one, that works when you spend an Action Point.

I'm considering posting a sample class, but I'm not 100% sure how much that will help people.

Hm ... sounds a little bit like you locked D20 Modern and True20 in a closet and waited nine months ...

 

[Vigilance]

Hm ... sounds a little bit like you locked D20 Modern and True20 in a closet and waited nine months ...

Well, I'm certainly taking things I liked from a number of games, including True 20, d20 Modern, Grim Tales and Spycraft.

But yeah, in terms of big things I've borrowed, True 20 is probably at the top of the list, because it's a game that I think gets a lot right.

And then I think what I'm doing with skills is pretty much my own, as well as the way I'm handling combat and damage.

But yeah, the three main starting points for this book were True 20, d20 Modern and the streamlined d20 game I did for the Two Worlds X-Box 360 game (which really started me thinking about designing a game from the ground up).

 

[Wraith Form]

PDF for starters, though we are dabbling more with POD.

Well, you just feell free to PM me when you have it up for sale, aiiiight?

 

[Vigilance]

Preview class (the tank) is up

 

[Vigilance]

So, as it stands right now, armor requires no skills or feats to use.

I never understood heavy armor sucking three feats out of the game's "economy" and always considered it a holdover from D&D.

I'm leaning toward armor just having a strength requirement, and costing money.

Thoughts?