D20 modern worth it?

[Mistwell]

THis is d20 Modern Fantasy. All the sample campaign worlds they give are modern fantasy. About half or a third of the book is fantasy support. It's a fine book, but many people seem to want to overlook the fantasy aspect. If you want sci fi, this book has very little in it for you.

Just to clarify, it is one third (144 pages) that deal with fantasy elements of some kind, and of that a huge chunk is psionics, which can be just as modern a feel as anything. Another huge chunk is opponants, and how to create them, many of which are non-fantasy oriented (like animals), and many (in fact most) of which could be adapted to have no fantasy justification at all. And all of that is in the last portion of the book.

It really isn't "fantasy" if you don't want it to be. The rules work quite well without any fantasy at all. In fact, the WOTC games that are being played in their office apparently are not fantasy oriented. Of the scheduled third party modules that I know about, none of them are fantasy either.

 

[Synicism]

Synicism, isn't that kinda the definition of an OGL game? Same rules, different races/classes/other specifics? I say, go buy it! It rocks! It has a picture of Meepo in cameo with a large firearm!

Yes and no. As we've seen with games like Mutants & Masterminds, you can have a LOT of variation under the OGL.

It is, however, the definition of a "d20" game. All I'm saying is that "d20 modern" is nothing impressive. IMO, it doesn't justify a book of its size. So little has changed between d20 Modern and the old PHB that it may as well have been a 100 page supplement.

 

[Mistwell]

D20 Modern provides very, very little for Sci-fi gaming, psionics and thats about it, no spaceships, no laserguns, aliens, doesn't really provide enough even for an X-files campaign. Let alone Stargate SG-1 or something like that then the GM will have a lot of work to do....

...Its only really worth buying because its a familiar rules system. There are plenty of equal good generic systems. I can't see the big selling point if you happy to use a system other than D20.

Just needed to chime in here on a couple of things.
1) It does have enough for an x-files campaign. I cannot think of a single element that it is missing for such a campaign. I would guess x-files was one of the things the authors had in mind for running such a game (in fact, I don't need to guess, Skully and Mulder are mentioned by name on page 299). You could do an x-files game right out of the box with this system.
2) I am working as fast as I can on converting d20M to a StarGate SG-1 campaign setting. It's going to be neat. However, I still have 2 seasons of episodes to go before I am ready to put pen to paper (well, fingers to keys), though my notes are pretty damn extensive at this point, and I can already tell it is going to shape up to be a nice setting that works very well with the d20M rules. I know of no other system that is being converted actively to a StarGate campaign, which brings me to...
3) There is one HUGE reason to pick up the d20M book that I think you are forgetting. This is only the first book. There are a ton of third party, and WOTC, products in production right now. This is likely a long lasting game that will have very good support. Saying "there are no rules for x,y, and z yet" is like complaining about the 3rd edition player's handbook's lack of monsters and magic items in the first month it came out (which it had, but only in a small amount). There will be lots of sci-fi support for this game. In fact, there is already more sci-fi support scheduled for this game than any other d20 product I know of (and more than many non-d20 products as well).

Just give the game a bit more time than three weeks to judge the entire system as lacking the details you want. It's not done, it only just started. A lot more is coming out for it, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the quality and diversity of support for these rules over the next year.

 

[Synicism]

Originally posted by Scud-O second: to Synicism, just what genres is d20 Modern incapable of mimicking? i am not asking to be confrontational (ok, maybe a little) but i am really stumped as to what kind of "modern" game you would be unable to run with these core rules.

OK. Lemme clarify. d20 Modern is good for playing any kind of "D&D with Guns" style RPG.

But that's the point. So was the original d20 system. We have Dragonstar, Weird Wars, Sidewinder, Four Color to Fantasy, Call of Cthulhu, and Star Wars.

Quite obviously, d20 was perfectly capable of running the kind of sci-fi and non-medieval games that d20 Modern is supposedly geared towards.

I'm not saying that I think d20 is a good modern-era/sci-fi RPG setting. I don't think it is, but that's just my opinion. But in what way does d20 Modern justify being a book of its size when so much of it is reprints from what's already out there, rehashed and given a new gloss? This could have been a 100 page web enhancement just as easily and it would have covered everything that's in d20 Modern already.

 

[Synicism]

Originally posted by Mistwell I, for one, am ignoring all the fantasy monsters and spells in the book, which is only less than 20% of the book anyway, and all optional rules. How you took those small number of optional rules to be the entire game, I have no idea. Even a brief skimming of the book should have told you that it is not just Modern D&D.

As for the original D&D core rule books...you have got to be kidding me. A TON of stuff is changed (for the better) in d20M. You could not possibly get away with just the D&D books and make a legitemate attempt at playing d20M.

Well. OK. What, exactly, has changed? I'm not talking about new classes (most of them suck), feats, and such. I am talking about fundamental aspects of the game system that makes the game better suited to modern-era roleplaying.

I agree that there are some updates to the system that streamline play and there are some changes I like. The changes to the Delay action, and the upgrade to Skill Focus are some examples. But what, fundamentally, is different that it needed this big huge book?

 

[Bagpuss]

2) I am working as fast as I can on converting d20M to a StarGate SG-1 campaign setting. It's going to be neat. However, I still have 2 seasons of episodes to go before I am ready to put pen to paper (well, fingers to keys), though my notes are pretty damn extensive at this point, and I can already tell it is going to shape up to be a nice setting that works very well with the d20M rules. I know of no other system that is being converted actively to a StarGate campaign, which brings me to...

West End Games were doing Stargate just before they folded. The stuff written so far is available on the net. Not sure how much use it would be to you but I thought I'd mention it in case it eases your work load any.

If you want to share any ideas on doing SG-1 as D20 Modern and what you've sorted out so far, I'd be interested. I've been considering it myself but don't have 'ready access' to all the episodes.

 

[Mistwell]

West End Games were doing Stargate just before they folded. The stuff written so far is available on the net. Not sure how much use it would be to you but I thought I'd mention it in case it eases your work load any.

If you want to share any ideas on doing SG-1 as D20 Modern and what you've sorted out so far, I'd be interested. I've been considering it myself but don't have 'ready access' to all the episodes.

Yes, I read the WEG stuff, and it is pretty good (though incomplete). I doubt I will directly use it (since it is copyrighted stuff belonging to someone else), but it is useful as a template for ideas.

I'd love to share ideas on it, and will be sure to start posting stuff when I have it in something other than hand written notes. At this point, I don't intend to sell the setting, just give it away to those interested. To sell it, I would need to negotiate a license (which I might do, and contracts negotiation is my profession actually, but I doubt I will want to purchase it at the rate they would likely charge).

Ready access to the episodes was an issue for me as well. Fortunately I know a few serious, SERIOUS fanatics for the show, and they had every episode on tape (and every detail of every show memorized, the loons). They will be the initial playtest group.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[Bagpuss]

I'll start a seperate topic with my ideas I've had so far to save taking this one off-topic.

 

[Visceris]

Heya KenM, you might know me fromt he Neverwinter Boards. (tee hee)

In a nutshell, yes its worth it. I would get it and the SRD files, or the big .pdf file someone made. Can't remember the location of it.

Anyway, it is the best money I spent on a gaming modern/sci fi book.

 

[jaerdaph]

I'd like to add an enthusiastic yes!

I haven't been this excited about RPGs since, well, August 2000