d20 Star Wars Saga Edition news from Gen Con?

[Razuur]

Yes, it's hard to to fit the rules to the universe that is already whacked to begin with. Kids, let's thank George Lucas for ruining Star Wars with the prequels.

Thats pretty funny, because while I like the Empire and after years, I *LOVE* the prequel era. It completely excites me. The Old Republic era is my cup of tea.

Razuur

 

[wingsandsword]

Because they say they consolidated the skill lists, and cut out about 15 skills. In making a swashbuckling, space opera, all-action-all-the-time style game "from the ground up", some designers would strip crafting down to one or two sentences, if not remove it entirely. Without anything more concrete, there is no indication that crafting WON'T be removed from the game either.

Well, they're trying to make it reflect Star Wars, and Jedi crafting their lightsaber is an integral part of the Star Wars lore, not to mention you'd have to have some kind of skill for things like the custom modifications to the Millennium Falcon, and they said aspects of the three removed classes were made parts of other classes, and crafting things particularly well is a major aspect of Tech Specialist, so we have no real reason to think they completely removed crafting, at most Craft skills may work differently than they have before, but we really can't tell.

They removed about 15 skills, well, think about how many Force Skills there were and they are consolidated down to one, and think about what happens when you combine similar skills like Listen, Spot and Search, or Hide and Move Silently, that also reduces a the skill count a lot.

 

[Ranger REG]

Yes, it's hard to to fit the rules to the universe that is already whacked to begin with. Kids, let's thank George Lucas for ruining Star Wars with the prequels.

Thats pretty funny, because while I like the Empire and after years, I *LOVE* the prequel era. It completely excites me. The Old Republic era is my cup of tea.

The comic-book/graphic-novel Tales of the Jedi version, yeah.

George Lucas's "The Origin of Darth Vader and the Fall of the Old Republic" film series, no.

 

[M.L. Martin]

Thats pretty funny, because while I like the Empire and after years, I *LOVE* the prequel era. It completely excites me. The Old Republic era is my cup of tea.

Razuur

The online fanbase has identified you, me, and every single Prequels and EU fan as an enemy of the Republic. Order 66 has been executed.

Matthew L. Martin, two steps ahead of the clone troopers

 

[Ranger REG]

The online fanbase has identified you, me, and every single Prequels and EU fan as an enemy of the Republic. Order 66 has been executed.

Matthew L. Martin, two steps ahead of the clone troopers

Dammit, I said Order 69! Abort Order 66 and execute Order 69!

As much as I don't like what George Lucas did to the Prequels that made me yawn and doze off in theaters, it is now permanently canon. Trust me, I'm used to this when I'm a Trekkie and I had to stomach any story written and aired by Brannon Braga and Rick Berman.

George Lucas could have done better: hire a better writing staff, hire a director that has more on-the-chair experience and skill than he has, etc.

 

[Twowolves]

Well, they're trying to make it reflect Star Wars, and Jedi crafting their lightsaber is an integral part of the Star Wars lore, not to mention you'd have to have some kind of skill for things like the custom modifications to the Millennium Falcon, and they said aspects of the three removed classes were made parts of other classes, and crafting things particularly well is a major aspect of Tech Specialist, so we have no real reason to think they completely removed crafting, at most Craft skills may work differently than they have before, but we really can't tell.

Good points, one and all. Somewhat reassuring. I keep getting the feeling SWSAGA will be Savage Worlds Star Wars (SWSW?) or True 20 Star Wars or Mutants & Masterminds in Space (M&MinS), none of which would be bad for a convention or pick up game or a one shot, but not my cup of tea for campaigning.

 

[LostSoul]

Any path to the dark side that focuses on uses of arbitrary "evil" force powers does not reflect the movies. It would be nice if there were some way to quantify key decisions and such, yes. But it seems a daunting challenge. It may have to be left to the discretion of the GM.

I don't think it would be that hard.

1. Rules that give you kick-ass bonuses when you use the Dark Side. Myabe the possibility of falling to the Dark Side (ie. no more PC). It's a good thing for the PCs to have DSPs.

2. GM advice that says push, push hard.

Then you get characters in difficult situations who can call on the Dark Side to get what they want.

"So, Luke, you wanna kill the Emperor? If you don't, Han will die, Leia will die, the Rebellion will fail, you will die, Vader will live but still be an evil slave to the Emperor.

"Here's a Dark Side point, it sure would help... all you have to do to get it is give into your anger."

"No. I'm a Jedi, like my father before me."

"So be it... Jedi."

 

[Goken100]

I don't think it would be that hard.

1. Rules that give you kick-ass bonuses when you use the Dark Side. Myabe the possibility of falling to the Dark Side (ie. no more PC). It's a good thing for the PCs to have DSPs.

2. GM advice that says push, push hard.

Then you get characters in difficult situations who can call on the Dark Side to get what they want.

"So, Luke, you wanna kill the Emperor? If you don't, Han will die, Leia will die, the Rebellion will fail, you will die, Vader will live but still be an evil slave to the Emperor.

"Here's a Dark Side point, it sure would help... all you have to do to get it is give into your anger."

"No. I'm a Jedi, like my father before me."

"So be it... Jedi."

Hehe, good idea. If they could come up with a way to make using the dark side "quicker, easier, more seductive" but not necessarily stronger, that'd be awesome. Maybe one of the drawbacks of having some dark-side influence is that you have to stand around and be torn by angst instead of acting during key moments.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

There's not just a whole lot I can add to this discussion, because Rodney and Gary have already said most of what we are allowed to say. For lots of reasons, some tied to the fact that WotC is part of Hasbro (which is publically traded), there are both realistic and legal gags we must work around when trying to discuss a book that isn't out yet. But we are reading, and listening, tp all your opinions and have been for years.

I do want to say just about two things. First, while a lot of what you're hearing may sound like bad ideas, the Saga edition really needs to be viewed as a complete game to be judged. I know people hear we've consoladated Force powers into a single system, and that there's just one Force skill, but that -doesn't- mean that one skill allows you to do every Force power anyone has ever thought of. It just measn there's a single system, and it happens to include a single skill as part of it.

I realize how frustrating it is to have to guess if you're going to like a game from snippets. Sadly, I can't give you any more than that. But while you're hearing about things in little packets, we redesigned the game as a complete whole. Many of your concerns, ranging from playing useful tech-based characters to wanting to have characters be Force-users of various traditions as 1st level characters, is -why- we rewrote parts of the game. Any one idea by iteself might not work if ported back to the RCR, but all together they form a great unified Saga game.

Second, speaking only for myself, my goal going into this was to write the best Star Wars rpg I could, regardless of what that meant. Having the best core rulebook, the one that gave the most Star Wars-like experience to the most players, was my chief concern. Now, I didn't write this in a vacuum. Rodney did just as much work, and people at WotC had their own needs, and it was my job to meet them. But I'm very proud of the result, and I think it benefits from years of seeing what has worked in SW and other games, and what hasn't.

I hope everyone enjoys it, and rest assured we're going to keep paying attention to everyone's opinions, even if we're driven by our own experiences and goals.

Owen K.C. Stephens
d20 Triggerman

 

[Staffan]

Hehe, good idea. If they could come up with a way to make using the dark side "quicker, easier, more seductive" but not necessarily stronger, that'd be awesome. Maybe one of the drawbacks of having some dark-side influence is that you have to stand around and be torn by angst instead of acting during key moments.

In the real Star Wars game (that is, the D6 version), they have a method for that. If you feel you have to, you can try to call on the Dark Side. Doing so automatically nets you a Dark Side Point, and lets you roll either your Control skill vs Easy difficulty or your Perception stat vs. Moderate difficulty. If you succeed, you get a free Force point to be used immediately (and a D6 force point is a lot more powerful than a D20 force point). Dark Side points also give you a bonus when using Force skills, but if you use that bonus you will be likely to get more DSPs.

There's some other stuff involved, such as increasing the difficulty if you try it too often, or if you're not doing dark side-type stuff.

Of course, there is a downside to having too many DSPs. When you get a DSP, you roll a d6. If you roll below your number of DSPs, you turn to the dark side and become an NPC. You also lose out on some of the advantages that come with having DSPs or calling on the dark side - once the dark side has you, it no longer needs to bribe you.